Solar radiant heat project begins

   / Solar radiant heat project begins #11  
John,
Your whole house looks interesting. Could you put up photos showing both sides?
 
   / Solar radiant heat project begins
  • Thread Starter
#12  
John,
Your whole house looks interesting. Could you put up photos showing both sides?

Here's a few pix of the house and the radiant layout. It's a steel frame house and the roof went on before the interior slab or any walls.
 

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   / Solar radiant heat project begins
  • Thread Starter
#13  
Here are three pics from today. One is me adding water to the radiant system, it's not connected to pressure water and must be filled from the top. I used a Harbor Freight sand blast tank for my expansion tank and set it up on the second floor, just unscrew the top and pour in the water. The manifold is one of three located around the house. The boiler pic shows the heat exchanger sitting on top. It exchanges energy from the solar loop to the floor loop. The solar also keeps the boiler warm so I added a vent damper to keep it from drafting out the top and wasting heat. The vent is not hooked up because we are running solar only for now.

Today I fired up the solar panels and began delivering heat to the floor. It's fun to finally get things working.
 

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   / Solar radiant heat project begins #14  
Looking good John. Hope you have a nice sunny day today to begin warming the slab.
 
   / Solar radiant heat project begins #15  
John,
Thankyou for the photos. I especially like the wide porch and roof overhang.
 
   / Solar radiant heat project begins #16  
Looks great. Maybe things are different out west but you didn't have to put high density foam under the rebar?
 
   / Solar radiant heat project begins
  • Thread Starter
#17  
We don't have to put insulation under the slab. I put it around the perimeter and held the heat back from the edges. I contend that insulation below the slab, in dry conditions adds no efficiency. Also, under slab insulation must be good enough to support the concrete for the life of the house.

There is no path for heat to escape down. Only conduction for a ways, which increases the affective mass. Insulation only slows this process. Lower mass slabs, with higher BTU delivery, can be programmed to have large temperature swings, but this one uses the slab for storage and is designed to be more steady. The higher the insulation value in the rest of the house, the lower the slab temp must be to achieve comfort. Insulation in the envelop really pays off.
 
   / Solar radiant heat project begins #18  
I have a closed loop radiant system. A circulator sends water to any of four manifolds, each with a number of loops, that represent four thermostat areas. All circulation goes through the floor loops and through a heat exchanger. I can add heat the other side of the heat exchanger from the solar panels or I can add heat to the floor loop by turning on the boiler and burning oil. The solar is the primary heat source and the oil cannot run until the solar is cold.

Two thermostats in each zone control the system. A solar thermostat calls for heat and can only get it from the solar, so in affect, it becomes a storage thermostat. The other thermostat cannot work until the solar thermostat has no more useful heat to deliver (a threshold temp on the storage tanks determines this) or it has reached it's et temp. I have 360 gallons of water storage. My water storage is pretty small, but the slab will be a huge part of the overall picture. These water storage tanks are full of pressurized domestic drinking water, so in affect we have 360 gallons of hot drinking water that can go to space heating or showers.

The main idea is that the slab will be at a minimum threshold temp most of the time and the solar will bring it up a bit during the day. Then the backup storage water will be used, and finally the oil, if needed. During the coldest months, some areas will be turned way down to minimize the heat demand. This might be the extra bedroom or the garage.

The collectors have a drainback system for freeze protection. They only have water in them when actually collecting and otherwise drain back to a holding tank. This is the best freeze protection system and is pretty much fool proof.

There are two very important considerations when designing a solar system. If these are followed, you will have good success. Number 1: Decide on the freeze protection system. Number 2: Design the system to be the most effective collector cooling system you can. Don't worry about achieving high temperatures, worry about cooling the panels. Cooling the panels affectively removes the maximum amount of energy and that energy goes into your storage system.

This winter I have decided to heat with only solar. Winter is coming and I'm not done with the house. Further, I don't have the oil tanks installed and don't want to pay for oil. The solar will be doing the whole job. For this season I'm going to hook up the panels in a temporary way and get it running in the next couple of days.

This whole thing is designed to be as simple as possible while being as foolproof as possible and to use the least amount of oil possible. The whole radiant system is non pressurized and not connected to our water system. The solar panels only have water in them when collecting and cannot freeze. The solar water is not the radiant water and neither one is the drinking water.

The boiler is a 400 pound cast iron unit set in the laundry room. Every time there is a call for oil heat it must be warmed up. So I included it in the solar loop. It becomes part of the solar storage and is warm and waiting if needed. It's waste heat is what keeps the laundry room warm. This is an old fashioned boiler. But by adding solar pre-heat, a vent damper, oversizing the boiler itself while undersizing the burner, I have raised it's efficiency to well over 85% while keeping it a very simple and reliable design that only runs when the solar is not enough.

I'll post some more pix tomorrow or Sunday. Today we got most of the collector mounting system ready. My goal is to be heating on Monday.

What resources did you use to figure out how to properly design this? I put radiant heating tubes in the slab of my barn back a couple of years ago when I was building it - and I'm finally at the point where I'd like to get it all hooked up. I've been doing as much reading as I can - just want to make sure I'm doing it "right".

I've tried looking for advice on some of the green building sites - and it seems like they're trying to make this into some sort of PhD treatise with all the calculations and complication they're looking for.

I'm wondering if it's really that hard to design and implement a well working system.
 
   / Solar radiant heat project begins #19  
We did the same thing with our home, except we have an outdoor wood boiler coupled to an indoor gas boiler for backup. Im anxious to see how well the solar keeps up, having a lot of sun sure helps. We took it a step further than just a radiant slab and put water to air heat exchangers in both of the furnaces and the hot water tank is also heated via the indoor/outdoor boilers. The entire indoor system is pressurized and coupled to the outdoor unpressurized system via a 80 plate water to water heat exchanger.

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   / Solar radiant heat project begins #20  
Radiant heating is great, I've had it for 23 yrs. Don't have the solar part just a boiler with a 120 gal storage tank and heat exchanger in it for domestic H/W. You don't need your floors very hot to be warm, when your floor gets too warm, the whole house is HOT! Your feet are warm and then you look at the thermostat on the wall and think it should be hotter than it reads. Make sure you have back up power/genset to run your circulating system because after a couple of days with no power you start getting cold, so for short power outages you can get by OK. It's a totally different feeling when you walk in from the cold and you get that radiant warmth that just settles in and isn't stifling like a hot dry furnace system can be.
 

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