Solenoid

[andy1dr]

Have a 1991 Jiangxi 184-4 tractor. Battery was dead. When trying to jump it from another vehicle the wires were crossed. (i.e. pos to neg and then neg to pos, it's a long story, don't ask). Anyhow, Pretty sure the battery was smoked. Bought a new battery hooked it up and now just getting a a click from the starter/solenoid. It is a 2 cylinder diesel engine. Had no issues before battery died.
Assuming next step is to bench test starter. In the event it is the solenoid, anyone know where I can purchase a solenoid for the starter? Thanks in advance.


I'm a real do it to my selfer.

 

[Bob Rooks]

Have a 1991 Jiangxi 184-4 tractor. Battery was dead. When trying to jump it from another vehicle the wires were crossed. (i.e. pos to neg and then neg to pos, it's a long story, don't ask). Anyhow, Pretty sure the battery was smoked. Bought a new battery hooked it up and now just getting a a click from the starter/solenoid. It is a 2 cylinder diesel engine. Had no issues before battery died.
Assuming next step is to bench test starter. In the event it is the solenoid, anyone know where I can purchase a solenoid for the starter? Thanks in advance.


I'm a real do it to my selfer.

Here is what's needed:
1) Engine make and model number (legible picture of nameplate).
2) Legible picture of starter AND nameplate.

"The Jiangxi 184 tractor was built in China by Jiangling.
Jiangling Tractor Company, now called Mahindra China Tractor Company, Ltd, was formerly a division of Jiangling Motor Company, is a Chinese company that produced the Lenar tractors for export to the U.S. and Europe. The parent company has been an automotive manufacturer for over thirty years and counts Ford Motor Company and Isuzu Motors as stockholders.


Jiangling was formed from the assets of the Jiangxi Tractor Plant in Nanchang, Jiangxi, China which produced the Fengshou tractors.

In 2004, 80% of the tractor company was purchased by Mahindra & Mahindra to join with their Mahindra Tractors division. The company was renamed Mahindra China Tractor Company, Ltd."

Jiangling

Jiangling Tractor Company, now called Mahindra China Tractor Company, Ltd, was formerly a division of Jiangling Motor Company, is a Chinese company that produced the Lenar tractors for export to the U.S. and Europe. The parent company has been an automotive manufacturer for over thirty years and...

tractors.fandom.com

 

[Rebeldad1]

take it to a starter rebuilder..

 

[andy1dr]

I was thinking about trying this. It has worked for starters/solenoids on riding mowers in the past.

 

[piper184]

Did you attempt to engage the starter while the wires were crossed?

If not, there should be no damage caused to the solenoid or the starter from the crossed wires but the battery, cables, alternator and possibly a fuse or two might have suffered.

Since you are getting a clicking at the solenoid, it would seem most of the other circuitry is OK and this should be no different than any other "clicking starter" troubleshoot.

As always, double check the battery cable connections on both ends of each cable. Because of the polarity reversal, I would also run a resistance check on each cable to make sure there is no internal damage.

An easy way to check is to use jumper cables and go from the positive battery terminal to the positive terminal (where the battery cable connects) on the solenoid and run the other jumper wire from the negative battery terminal to a cleaned off mounting bolt on the starter. This will be a by-pass to the existing cables/connections.

Do your other electrical circuits work as they should?

 

[andy1dr]

Did you attempt to engage the starter while the wires were crossed?

If not, there should be no damage caused to the solenoid or the starter from the crossed wires but the battery, cables, alternator and possibly a fuse or two might have suffered.

Since you are getting a clicking at the solenoid, it would seem most of the other circuitry is OK and this should be no different than any other "clicking starter" troubleshoot.

As always, double check the battery cable connections on both ends of each cable. Because of the polarity reversal, I would also run a resistance check on each cable to make sure there is no internal damage.

An easy way to check is to use jumper cables and go from the positive battery terminal to the positive terminal (where the battery cable connects) on the solenoid and run the other jumper wire from the negative battery terminal to a cleaned off mounting bolt on the starter. This will be a by-pass to the existing cables/connections.

Do your other electrical circuits work as they should?

No, It was pretty obvious that something was amiss when the last connection to the battery started throwing a mass amount of sparks when trying to connect it. And the alternator was not working to begin with. After swapping the battery, that was the next item to be troubleshot and replaced. the negative cable for the battery was burned half through (it is red, which is why the polarity was crossed, looks like they used a positive battery cable at some point). I cut off the bad part, stripped it back and put it to the battery connector (it is one of those replacement connectors with two bolts that clamp down the wire to the connector).

I appreciate everyone's feed back.

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

Do you have good ground?

 

[andy1dr]

ground is good. When i turn the key, the solenoid does kick in. But is not throwing the starter. Continuity is good on both the ground from the battery to where it is connected to the frame, and on the hit line from the battery to where it comnects to solenoid. At this point i think i am resigned to taking the starter off and performing a bench test on it.

 

[Bob Rooks]

I was thinking about trying this. It has worked for starters/solenoids on riding mowers in the past.

That was embarrassing to watch. I don't understand how installing an external relay to a starter with bad solenoid windings is going to engage the Bendix drive. However, it will work on a starter that uses centrifugal engagement such as a Ford or small engine. Solenoids have a built in relay, relays do not have a solenoid.

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

Some of the solenoids have a copper disc and contacts, built into the solenoid. You can disassemble them and clean up the contacts and the disc, and repair them. Good luck.

 

[Bob Rooks]

Some of the solenoids have a copper disc and contacts, built into the solenoid. You can disassemble them and clean up the contacts and the disc, and repair them. Good luck.

To clarify - all starter solenoids "have a copper disc and contacts" - this part is called a relay. Some of the older relays can be disassembled, flip the copper washer and clean the contacts. They are actually two separate devices combined, similar to the fuel injection pump and governor.

 

[andy1dr]

That was embarrassing to watch. I don't understand how installing an external relay to a starter with bad solenoid windings is going to engage the Bendix drive. However, it will work on a starter that uses centrifugal engagement such as a Ford or small engine. Solenoids have a built in relay, relays do not have a solenoid.

To clarify - all starter solenoids "have a copper disc and contacts" - this part is called a relay. Some of the older relays can be disassembled, flip the copper washer and clean the contacts. They are actually two separate devices combined, similar to the fuel injection pump and governor.

Understood. But i should be able to take the solenoid off of the starter and hook a postive up to the starter pole where the solenoid connects and a ground ro the starter case and verify the starter is actually throwing the gear, correct? While i have the solenoid off I will make sure the parts are clean as well.

 

[Bob Rooks]

Understood. But i should be able to take the solenoid off of the starter and hook a positive up to the starter pole where the solenoid connects and a ground ro the starter case and verify the starter is actually throwing the gear, correct? While i have the solenoid off I will make sure the parts are clean as well.

First you have to verify that the starter itself is actually functioning. This should be performed on the bench - be sure the starter is securely grounded and then tap a positive battery cable to the starter side of the relay. The starter should spin without engaging the solenoid. To test only the relay and solenoid - be sure the starter is securely grounded and then tap a positive battery cable to the small terminal on the relay. The solenoid should engage without the starter spinning, if it doesn't and you still get "clicking" then the solenoid windings are open.

 

[andy1dr]

Took starter off tractor, hooked postive up to the postive pole on the starter, and grounded to the starter case. Got nothing from the starter. So starter is bad, correct? Battery is brand new, so i know its good

 

[KWentling]

If you're going to bench test a starter make sure you have a good grip on it or in a vice.

 

[andy1dr]

Took starter off tractor, hooked postive up to the postive pole one the starter, and grounded to the starter case. Got nothing from the starter. So starter is bad, correct. Next question, where can i get a new starter? Does mirhanda sell the parts?

 

[Bob Rooks]

Took starter off tractor, hooked postive up to the postive pole on the starter, and grounded to the starter case. Got nothing from the starter. So starter is bad, correct? Battery is brand new, so i know its good

See my post #13.

 

[KWentling]

Take to a starter/alternator repair shop if you have one.

 

[KWentling]

Voltage drop tests are much better than continuity checks. You can have continuity but not the ability to carry current.

 

[Bob Rooks]

Next question, where can i get a new starter? Does mirhanda sell the parts?

As I said before, we need to identify what engine and starter you have. A legible photo of the engine and starter nameplates would be a great help. The tractor manufacturer in this instance does not make the engine or starter.