Some developers are swine.

/ Some developers are swine. #101  
For someone estate planning with property, there could also be an option to Sell it to a conservation group, while keeping a life hold lease on the property. They sell get the cash, and stay on the house/property until they die. They dont own it anymore, cause the sold it, but they own a life hold lease. The heirs get any cash left in the estate; or the estate spends it all in their final years; doesn't matter.
 
/ Some developers are swine. #102  
Can you help me out with ideas on where people are supposed to live?
Most of our cities are suffering from residential abandonment, due to mismanagement, which shows up in the forms of crime, traffic, and other frustrations. Look at most other developed countries from Europe to even Canada, and you will find much higher fractions of the population living in cities. But no one wants to live actually in Detroit, Memphis, or Baltimore, so they flood into the surrounding countryside and commute.

A developer I knew summed it up when he said "Everyone wants to be the last one in".
My father used to say exactly the same thing. :ROFLMAO:

The developer is swine because he convinced and paid the daughter to get the covenants that her parents had put in place to preserve their land as farm land removed, knowing full well that they had assured the adjoining neighbors for years that they wouldn't allow the property to be developed.
If you think the parents did this as some noble sacrifice, you don't understand how this works. The combination of immediate cash and subsequent tax breaks provided by most of these preservation programs is the primary motivator.

I don't remember the exact numbers, but an uncle of mine had just put 84 acres into preservation in @kenmbz's neighborhood ca.2001, and I think he was paid something like $750k up front for giving up the development rights, and had the assessment driving his yearly property tax slashed down from a number that would make your eyes bleed to a level representing only the house and something like 2 acres around it.

He knew full-well that any developer could (and likely would) pay the back taxes to pull the property back out of preservation, after he was gone, given the high value of property in that area. But it was "preserved" while he was here, and the cash and tax release certainly made things more comfortable for him to remain there and maintain his other properties.
 
/ Some developers are swine. #103  
I think some people on here have never known someone burdened with a "white elephant" property. Wife's grandma owned a large home in Flagler Beach, on intercoastal, boat slip, and all. When her husband died, Grandma could not afford to fix anything, every single year at property tax time, it was touch and go. She dropped all insurance, cause no way she could pay taxes And insurance. House slowly rots away with her; until she dies. She leaves it to 2 of her 3 children, intentional leaving 1 son out. The two adult children stay in it for a few years; plywood up this room cause the window is broken, cut water off to kitchen cause they can't afford to fix the leak, and still struggle to make that tax payment every year (like $12,000). Gets to the point wife's mom has to threaten her brother with a law suite to force him to sell. Eventually, like 3 years later, faced with either the county siezing the house for back taxes or selling it; he gives in and they sell. They got $700,000 to split two ways; and wife's mom uses the money to buy a simpler, more practical home, with running water, windows, and lower taxes. Both my MIL and her brother hated to see it go, but it was good for them both.
 
/ Some developers are swine. #104  
You have no right to control what was once your property from beyond the grave. If that idea worked all the land on earth would have been locked away centuries ago. And what do you expect the daughter to do? She clearly isn’t going to start farming the land again.
Ahhhh ------ Easements in perpetuity.
 
/ Some developers are swine. #105  
Definition of an environmentalist; somebody who already has their place in the country.
 
/ Some developers are swine. #106  
If the cornfield across from your property sold and a subdivision was coming in and you posted about how your nice view is going away, I would be sympathetic and would likely offer a "Sorry to hear. That stinks" post.

But if you went on and on (and on) about what "swine" the people (who had done nothing wrong) were, and detailed your efforts to stop the development and vowed how you were going to do everything you could to be a pain in their @$$, my sympathy would dry up.

Personal property rights are a very important part of life in USA. I'm not convinced that the daughter should not have done (or been allowed to do) what she wanted with her property.
But did she do it legally is somewhat of a question.

One just cannot have a development show up across the street without following process and laws.
 
/ Some developers are swine. #107  
One small town that is growing too
fast is seeing an uptick in crime, shootings at their HS, unmanageable
traffic and has inadequate infra structure to support the booming
population. Town mismanagement ? I think so. City fathers waited to
long and ignored the growth signs of huge housing developments. Now
trying to correct/update but really too little too late.
I see this happening in my county. It has always been pretty backwards and behind the curve. Now hundreds of houses are coming in. It does look like they are updating sanitary sewers which get pumped to the next county over. We will see if it is all worth it and whether they can stay ahead of the curve.
 
/ Some developers are swine. #108  
I also feel, specifically on farming, a lot of comments are from folks that like the Idea of farming, but dont actually understand its a Business. You take a medium sized 640 acre farm, that actually does support a family income. Farmer isn't getting rich, hes getting old, he doesn't have a pension or a 401k; if he wants to retire, he has 100% (or more) of his estate tied up in dirt. His only realistic choice is to sell and use that money to retire. Maybe he sells to his kids, maybe he sells to another farmer, maybe he auctions it, maybe his kids want to keep farming, and he leases the ground to them.

In the most "family farm friendly" scenario; he leases the dirt to his kid. He gets enough to cover taxes, and enough to live his twilight years. Great. Now, he dies, the kid inherited the land, some buildings, and maybe some old, paid for equipment, but very likely not that much functional, modern, paid for equipment. The kid (he/she is probably not a spring chicken at this point) now has to pay taxes on $1.4m of the $6.4M value. He either had to take a loan to pay the tax, or he sells a couple smaller parcels to cover tax. Maybe he doesn't want to lease or take massive loans for equipment; so instead of selling 20 2 acre pieces to cover taxes; he instead sells 160 acres to a developer; he covers the taxes, he has about $800k for capital investment; and he continues his family legacy.
Yes, 100%, he did sell off a quarter if the farm, but hes starting from a strong financial position, he had a bit of a buffer for low soybean prices, weather, intrest rates. You want family farms to continue, they need to be able to access their financial assets.
 
/ Some developers are swine. #109  
In the above scenario, that next gen farmer sells the 160 acres; maybe it is divided into 32 5 acre parcels. We get 32 new "homestead, tiny farm, life style" folks; they buy tractors, decorative "farm" gates, build driveways and homes; TBN gets 32 new members, I build roads, county gets more taxes, 32 people are happy with their new rural properties, the farmer is still farming, and with his capital investment, he is probably producing more on his 480 acres then pops did on his 640. Who lost?
 
/ Some developers are swine. #110  
But did she do it legally is somewhat of a question.

One just cannot have a development show up across the street without following process and laws.
Sounds like she (or her developer friend) DID follow process and laws. Just because you didn't like the outcome doesn't mean the deal was shady.
 
/ Some developers are swine. #112  
In the above scenario, that next gen farmer sells the 160 acres; maybe it is divided into 32 5 acre parcels. We get 32 new "homestead, tiny farm, life style" folks; they buy tractors, decorative "farm" gates, build driveways and homes; TBN gets 32 new members, I build roads, county gets more taxes, 32 people are happy with their new rural properties, the farmer is still farming, and with his capital investment, he is probably producing more on his 480 acres then pops did on his 640. Who lost?
The consumer. The price of food will rise and become a bigger part of expenses for the average Joe who wasn't greedy enough to get ahead of their neighbors.
 
/ Some developers are swine. #113  
The consumer. The price of food will rise and become a bigger part of expenses for the average Joe who wasn't greedy enough to get ahead of their neighbors.
Not really, or atleast not by default. Pops who scraped by, and probably even did ok on his 640 acres, probably never had the Cash to do capital investment, laser leveling, field tile, get the variable rate sprayer, ect. Now, the son/daughter Does have some cash, and 480 acres. They Can maybe do some laser field leveling, install tile, upgrade to more modern equipment, and likely yield the same on 480 as dad did on 640.

Another point, in Many areas that 640 is not a single big square parcel, of all prime land. Most places, it might not even be contiguous. There are probably lower yielding fields, fields that are hard to access, and honestly, in Many cases fields that cost more in inputs than are pulled out in yields. Those could be marginal farm land, but prime residential properties; Or as mentioned else where, maybe that 40 acre piece in the back, thats always last to plant cause it stays wet, is a good candidate for a conservative easement; or a dove field, or something else.

This isn't simple "farm good, not farm bad" situation.
 
/ Some developers are swine. #114  
I know it sounds pretty negative; and maybe it sounds like im saying housing is the only choice, and its Not.

If you have inherited the family farm, and really Want to keep it, you might need to get creative. Maybe dedicating 1000ft x 200 ft to a membership shooting range is an option; maybe planting dove fields, and selling hunts is; maybe a barrow pit is a good option, and once mined out, you have some cash and a big pond; maybe solar lease, maybe there Is a way to make money still farming it. It might not be the same as grand dad's farming operation, maybe its hops, hemp, grapes, exotic animals for hunting, maybe it really is corn and soy beans (or peanuts or cabbage and potatoes).

Maybe its you sell the 100 acres of row crop in Iowa, with its good CSR score, and buy 1300 acres in Oklahoma for cattle.

That's an individual decision that makes some real, honest thought, number crunching, and prayer for each person.

Maybe you lost the frito lay contract, and potatoes aren't paying this year, but due to rising development, you save the farm by switching to a sod cutting operation
 
  • Good Post
Reactions: JJT
/ Some developers are swine. #115  
How does a farmer make a million dollars?

He starts with two million.
Being that a big customer stopped buying soybeans, farmers around here are losing about $300/acre with that crop. Not good.
 
/ Some developers are swine. #116  
How does a farmer make a million dollars?

He starts with two million.
Well in my grandparents case it was by milking cows and investing that when my grandmother past 2008 was worth 1.x million. Wealth passed on to 3 children and my sister and I due to the passing of our father. Our financial advisor uses her story for an example of how to manage your money and retire well off.
 
/ Some developers are swine. #117  
Regarding the original topic…

I don’t do politics, this is just a commentary on what I’ve observed.

There’s a nearby town bordering a relatively large city. Said town is rural and undeveloped.

Zoning war erupted, I read the legislative proposal and it basically boiled down to “if you sell a property, regardless of its type, it cannot be subdivided.

Locals were angry at this, and I felt they would be just as angry seeing a farm going down and replaced with a HOA development.

I’d prefer the former over the latter honestly, but it’s really none of my business.

I guess what I’m trying to say, is that I find that often times it’s very difficult to make everybody happy.
 
/ Some developers are swine. #118  
Got notice last week that a developer has applied to build a subdivision across the street from me. Plan shows 72 houses on 64 acres with four retention ponds. NW corner borders a small creek. Neighbors are up in arms, I guess the FB thread (or whatever they are called, I don't do FB) was nearly a riot a friend said.
Here's what REALLY pisses me off. A few years ago, I had a conversation with one of the owners of the farm that I knew they were getting on and wouldn't be able to keep the farm up much longer, and she assured me that they had put covenants on the property that prohibited the property being developed because she knew it would be terrible for the neighborhood. Well, after they passed and the property went to their daughter, a developer friend of hers offered to buy the land and he would pay the legal bills to get the covenants removed. So that was accomplished and now we're looking at a few years of construction, noise, a lot more traffic, 72 septic systems, 72 more wells (a couple of people in the area have already had to put in deeper wells), more pollution from 72 lawns getting several doses of insecticides, herbicides and fertilizer every year.
I will have the back yards of four houses directly across from my property, a total of 16 will either face the road or face the other way. 10 will have driveways directly onto the county road in addition to the main entrance.
So tomorrow at 9:30AM there is going to be a huge turnout at the Planning Commission meeting for the approval or denial of the plan. Hope it doesn't get ugly, as some have on occasion.
The real problem I see, is that the members of the commission have virtually rubber stamped a bunch of projects this developer has submitted, even when there was overwhelming opposition against them. Part of the problem is that they are appointed, not elected, and really have no stake in the game, as it's nearly impossible to get them removed, past experience shows.
There's some talk of hiring a lawyer and I told them I would definitely support that if it became necessary.
Slimy friggin' developers...

Forgot to mention, I've lived here for 51 years. When I moved here, there were only about 20 homes within a mile of me. Now there are over 700, and almost no farm land is left.
Well, BX... everything changes. As I mentioned, my dad subdivided property on the edge of South Bend in the mid 50s. The city limits were the norther border and a county road. There was nothing to the north or west of him but farm fields. Over just my 64 years of life, I've seen several hundred houses built to the west, an industrial park, two apartment complexes, a Walmart come and go (shoplifted out of existence), fast food, sit-down restaurants, convenience stores, Meijer, car washes, a library, more housing developments with a couple thousand houses to the north all the way to the Michigan state line, the Cleveland Rd bridge over the river, a one lane bridge replaced with a two lane, more industrial parks, pretty much everything on the NW side of South Bend didn't exist when I was born. It all changed, and none of the people I knew when I was a kid live there anymore.

I understand your frustrations with being told by the original owner that the property would stay farmland, only to have the daughter take legal actions against her parent's wishes. You could blame the parents for not putting strong enough legalities in place to keep it that way. You could blame the developer for helping the daughter get around it. You could blame the daughter for going against their wishes. You could blame the commissions. All kinds of stuff. But it's just gonna eat at your gut for a long, long time. I know this, because we were denied a zoning variance for some AG land that we wanted to purchase, then a year later, they granted the same variance we were seeking to another person on the same piece of property. The only difference.... the last name... Mangus. (yep, state rep's family). It ate at me for quite a while. But as my father wisely told me many years ago, it's not what you know, it's who you know that counts more often than not.

About the only thing you can do is voice your concerns regarding traffic and density issues like septic, wells, soils types, FIRE INGRESS AND EGRESS to and from the neighborhood, drainage, etc. and hope they hear those concerns and address them to make it less painful on you and your neighbors.

As for this thread in general... some of the comments directed towards you regarding 'tough cookies', it's not your property came from some of the same folks that have expressed that they don't want a wind farm or solar farm next door to them. 😘

Good luck. Don't let it eat you up. Advocate for the best outcome that you can reasonably expect to happen and hope for the best. (y)
 
/ Some developers are swine. #119  
About the only thing you can do is voice your concerns regarding traffic and density issues like septic, wells, soils types, FIRE INGRESS AND EGRESS to and from the neighborhood, drainage, etc. and hope they hear those concerns and address them to make it less painful on you and your neighbors.

. (y)
I’m in the works with a much smaller development on 3.7 acres. The city required engineer stamped plans to comply with state regulations. The high points include sewer drawings, storm water runoff and detention pond plans, a road thats at minimum 20 ft wide with an 80 ft turn around for fire trucks and a fire hydrant 500 ft from the farthest house. Judging by the size of the project and the fact they mentioned retention ponds I’m sure the OPs developer already has engineers involved.
 
/ Some developers are swine. #120  
Got notice last week that a developer has applied to build a subdivision across the street from me. Plan shows 72 houses on 64 acres with four retention ponds. NW corner borders a small creek. Neighbors are up in arms, I guess the FB thread (or whatever they are called, I don't do FB) was nearly a riot a friend said.
Here's what REALLY pisses me off. A few years ago, I had a conversation with one of the owners of the farm that I knew they were getting on and wouldn't be able to keep the farm up much longer, and she assured me that they had put covenants on the property that prohibited the property being developed because she knew it would be terrible for the neighborhood. Well, after they passed and the property went to their daughter, a developer friend of hers offered to buy the land and he would pay the legal bills to get the covenants removed. So that was accomplished and now we're looking at a few years of construction, noise, a lot more traffic, 72 septic systems, 72 more wells (a couple of people in the area have already had to put in deeper wells), more pollution from 72 lawns getting several doses of insecticides, herbicides and fertilizer every year.
I will have the back yards of four houses directly across from my property, a total of 16 will either face the road or face the other way. 10 will have driveways directly onto the county road in addition to the main entrance.
So tomorrow at 9:30AM there is going to be a huge turnout at the Planning Commission meeting for the approval or denial of the plan. Hope it doesn't get ugly, as some have on occasion.
The real problem I see, is that the members of the commission have virtually rubber stamped a bunch of projects this developer has submitted, even when there was overwhelming opposition against them. Part of the problem is that they are appointed, not elected, and really have no stake in the game, as it's nearly impossible to get them removed, past experience shows.
There's some talk of hiring a lawyer and I told them I would definitely support that if it became necessary.
Slimy friggin' developers...

Forgot to mention, I've lived here for 51 years. When I moved here, there were only about 20 homes within a mile of me. Now there are over 700, and almost no farm land is left.
I can safely say if this was in California where I live it would be near impossible to develop…

Brothers farm just down zoned because the new million to 2 million dollar homeowners in the area have their piece of paradise and block anything…

Near me is a 3.5 acre homesite that has passed through over a dozen owners in 40 years with a plan to build a single family home…

All have lost a bundle and years of their lives chasing their dream…

You would not be the first to cash out and relocate due to encroaching development.

A few farmers had very strict views and donated their land for public park or even working heritage farm.
 
Last edited:

Marketplace Items

2015 Ford Transit 350 Sewer Viewer Van (A61568)
2015 Ford Transit...
2025 LandHonor HPF-11-3000G 48in Hydraulic Adjustable Forks and Frame Skid Steer Attachment (A60352)
2025 LandHonor...
KBH Tender Trailer (A56438)
KBH Tender Trailer...
6 Wheel Peanut Wagon (A62177)
6 Wheel Peanut...
6 Wheel Peanut Wagon (A62177)
6 Wheel Peanut...
TANK MANIFOLD (A58214)
TANK MANIFOLD (A58214)
 
Top