Bill, or anyone that has experience how about one of the trucks that has the long hose that mixes it on the truck on site. It seems like that would be preferable since the sonotube is elevated 3' above grade, it looks like a hose would be easier to manage around the sonotubes as there will only be 8' or so between the piers that way the truck can pretty well stay put and just walk the hose around. Even if it cost a little more although I've never been close to a project where someone was using this method it does seem a pumper would be a big advantage when trying to fill the tubes to a precise level.
Sonotube questions Please respond if you know
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wroughtn_harv
Super Member
I was told a pumper truck is four hundred dollars minimum(four hours).
The mix on site trucks usally get a premium. Here in Dallas you have to figure about eighty dollars yard with a three yard minimum. There's also the wait charge after the first half hour. So if it takes longer than a half an hour to unload there's an additional dollar and a half a minute (ninety dollars an hour).
According to your posts I get the idea you've got fifty five piers with about five to six feet of capacity per pier. Let's figure eleven yards.
Redimix trucks with a pumper and a crew of four laborers, fifteen to sixteen hundred dollars for concrete pour.
Mix on site truck with six laborers to pour concrete with wheelbarrows, eleven to twelve hundred dollars. (fifty dollars cash per laborer )
You mixing concrete in wheelbarrow and using Maximizer from a box store, fourteen hundred and fifty dollars.
This is based upon you having everything in place, braced, and ready for pour. Redimix seventy five dollars a yard, on site eighty. Maximizer at four fifty an eight pound bag. Laborers at fifty dollars each per day.
What is scarey is you can probably get a pro crew to come in and do the pour for sixteen hundred including concrete.
I'd probably do it myself with a mixer, sand, gravel, and portland cement. In fact I do it all the time that way. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Of course I'm only fifty six and need the excerise and love having control over every aspect of my work. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
*****labor rate based on half day!!*****and cash!!!!!*******
The mix on site trucks usally get a premium. Here in Dallas you have to figure about eighty dollars yard with a three yard minimum. There's also the wait charge after the first half hour. So if it takes longer than a half an hour to unload there's an additional dollar and a half a minute (ninety dollars an hour).
According to your posts I get the idea you've got fifty five piers with about five to six feet of capacity per pier. Let's figure eleven yards.
Redimix trucks with a pumper and a crew of four laborers, fifteen to sixteen hundred dollars for concrete pour.
Mix on site truck with six laborers to pour concrete with wheelbarrows, eleven to twelve hundred dollars. (fifty dollars cash per laborer )
You mixing concrete in wheelbarrow and using Maximizer from a box store, fourteen hundred and fifty dollars.
This is based upon you having everything in place, braced, and ready for pour. Redimix seventy five dollars a yard, on site eighty. Maximizer at four fifty an eight pound bag. Laborers at fifty dollars each per day.
What is scarey is you can probably get a pro crew to come in and do the pour for sixteen hundred including concrete.
I'd probably do it myself with a mixer, sand, gravel, and portland cement. In fact I do it all the time that way. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Of course I'm only fifty six and need the excerise and love having control over every aspect of my work. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
*****labor rate based on half day!!*****and cash!!!!!*******
OK now ya'll are really killing me here the only concrete I ever poured was into a tire to stand a tether ball up seems like it took two sacks. I'm sorta puny so moving 22,000lbs of concrete by hand doesn't seem like my smartest move and certainly if I had the $ I'd hire a contractor and have him call me when the house was ready to move into.
Try this on for size the house I've drawn is 28' x 60' I plan on having a center wall in the house at 14' to support the rafters. How does concrete blocks (cinder blocks) sound crissscrossed 2 and 2 and 2 and 2 to give me 32" tall run one row of piers apprx 8' appart down the center and both sides the 60' direction and possibly put 5 piers on each end that gives me 25 piers we have virtually no snow here in Boerne and probably less then 20 days below freezing mixed around during the winter so no frost heave to worry with. Scratch the piers into the ground only to get to level and put one 1/2" piece of rebar per open hole in the blocks not touching the ground and pour concrete into the holes to give them some beef and hold them together.
This house I'm building is we'll say semi temporary but if "S" hits the rotary blades again it could be where I die but hopefully our economy will one day turn and I'll have a custom homebuilder come in and build me a big, nice, rock house with all the trimmings and I'll turn this house into a hunting lodge for my hunters.
What do ya'll think of the cinder block idea anyone used them for this purpose this way or will I spend the rest of my days under it releveling so the doors and window will open and shut.
Try this on for size the house I've drawn is 28' x 60' I plan on having a center wall in the house at 14' to support the rafters. How does concrete blocks (cinder blocks) sound crissscrossed 2 and 2 and 2 and 2 to give me 32" tall run one row of piers apprx 8' appart down the center and both sides the 60' direction and possibly put 5 piers on each end that gives me 25 piers we have virtually no snow here in Boerne and probably less then 20 days below freezing mixed around during the winter so no frost heave to worry with. Scratch the piers into the ground only to get to level and put one 1/2" piece of rebar per open hole in the blocks not touching the ground and pour concrete into the holes to give them some beef and hold them together.
This house I'm building is we'll say semi temporary but if "S" hits the rotary blades again it could be where I die but hopefully our economy will one day turn and I'll have a custom homebuilder come in and build me a big, nice, rock house with all the trimmings and I'll turn this house into a hunting lodge for my hunters.
What do ya'll think of the cinder block idea anyone used them for this purpose this way or will I spend the rest of my days under it releveling so the doors and window will open and shut.
btolle
Platinum Member
I have never used a pre-mix truck with an attached hose so I can't help with that. I have poured a lot of concrete but is was always from the truck or with a crane and bucket on heavy utility construction.
The chute on a concrete truck will pour into a 3' high form. Just remember that the concrete will be hitting the side of the sonotube so it must be braced very well or it will be knocked sideways from the force. One way to minimize it would be to hold a shovel in front of the chute so the concrete hits it and directs into the sonotube. Preferably a great big guy will hold the shovel and the driver will slow the drum down so it will flow a little slower.
My house sits entirely on 18" square concrete pads and tapered pre-fab piers. HOWEVER, my house is built on sandy loam that has a very low "plasticity" factor.
"Plasticity" is the factor of expansion/contraction of the soil. 'Black gumbo' like you find around Houston and Dallas has a high plasticity factor. Let dry for 10 days and cracks 1/2" to 1" wide will appear. This type of soil requires that you water the foundation regularly during dry weather or you risk movement of the foundation.
I have seen foundations where the perimeter piers were poured and the inside piers were square blocks and pre-cast piers.
The most stable ground to build on is sand. I lived in Galveston and the soil there never moved because it was an island and all sand.
I have no idea what type of soil you have in Boerne. It might money well spent to have a foundation designed by a Professional Engineer in that area. Rather than guessing at how many piers you need, what size they need to be, etc. he could tell you what you really need. Shouldn't be more than a few hundred dollars and the future integrity of your home depends on a solid foundation.
The real problem is that what would work for me in Jasper, TX would be disastrous in Dallas.
On a final note, I bought a house in Dallas many years ago that was built on bois d'arc blocks sitting on the top of the ground. They were actually split wood, looked just like kindling. I have a picture of the ones in the rear of the house and they were leaning about 20 degrees. Not good, but that is the way they did in the 1910-1920 era when the house was built.
For those who have never heard of bois d'arc it is extremely hard wood and not even a termite will touch it. Unfortunately, it is so hard that I do not know of any lumber mill that would touch it.
The funniest part is that the foundation contractor stacked the bois d'arc on the curb for city pickup. It looked just like cordwood. I looked out one Saturday morning and a guy in a Mercedes was loading it into his trunk for firewood. I didn't tell him, but when you burn the stuff it is so tight that steam pockets will build up pressure and explode, throwing chunks of burning embers several feet.
Bill Tolle
The chute on a concrete truck will pour into a 3' high form. Just remember that the concrete will be hitting the side of the sonotube so it must be braced very well or it will be knocked sideways from the force. One way to minimize it would be to hold a shovel in front of the chute so the concrete hits it and directs into the sonotube. Preferably a great big guy will hold the shovel and the driver will slow the drum down so it will flow a little slower.
My house sits entirely on 18" square concrete pads and tapered pre-fab piers. HOWEVER, my house is built on sandy loam that has a very low "plasticity" factor.
"Plasticity" is the factor of expansion/contraction of the soil. 'Black gumbo' like you find around Houston and Dallas has a high plasticity factor. Let dry for 10 days and cracks 1/2" to 1" wide will appear. This type of soil requires that you water the foundation regularly during dry weather or you risk movement of the foundation.
I have seen foundations where the perimeter piers were poured and the inside piers were square blocks and pre-cast piers.
The most stable ground to build on is sand. I lived in Galveston and the soil there never moved because it was an island and all sand.
I have no idea what type of soil you have in Boerne. It might money well spent to have a foundation designed by a Professional Engineer in that area. Rather than guessing at how many piers you need, what size they need to be, etc. he could tell you what you really need. Shouldn't be more than a few hundred dollars and the future integrity of your home depends on a solid foundation.
The real problem is that what would work for me in Jasper, TX would be disastrous in Dallas.
On a final note, I bought a house in Dallas many years ago that was built on bois d'arc blocks sitting on the top of the ground. They were actually split wood, looked just like kindling. I have a picture of the ones in the rear of the house and they were leaning about 20 degrees. Not good, but that is the way they did in the 1910-1920 era when the house was built.
For those who have never heard of bois d'arc it is extremely hard wood and not even a termite will touch it. Unfortunately, it is so hard that I do not know of any lumber mill that would touch it.
The funniest part is that the foundation contractor stacked the bois d'arc on the curb for city pickup. It looked just like cordwood. I looked out one Saturday morning and a guy in a Mercedes was loading it into his trunk for firewood. I didn't tell him, but when you burn the stuff it is so tight that steam pockets will build up pressure and explode, throwing chunks of burning embers several feet.
Bill Tolle
_RaT_
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"JJT; Because frost will grab hold of the rough edges and heave your pour. "
Spoken like a true Easterner. Frost, whats that, the stuff that gets on my windshield once or twice a year?
Yeap, the folks who have the hard freezes have lots of extra stuff to worry about, and forget about planting any kind of citrus. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Spoken like a true Easterner. Frost, whats that, the stuff that gets on my windshield once or twice a year?
Yeap, the folks who have the hard freezes have lots of extra stuff to worry about, and forget about planting any kind of citrus. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
_RaT_
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Harv, what is maximizer? We use a product called plasticiser that effectively takes a 3" to unlimited slump upon adding it without compromising the compressive strength.
You do not pour concrete, you place it.
You only vibrate concrete from the bottom up. Get the vibrator to the bottom as fast as you can, then slowly pull the stinger up.
The only way to do the job described practically is having it pumped. A pumper truck with a boom is the easiest, how far you have to reach will determine the size of the boom. The more the boom, the more the cost. A line pump is handy but requires strong people, almost as strong as those guys that would desire to fill the piers by hand.
Lastly, have fun, concrete is not for the weak, the high anxiety type folk. Once hardened, it becomes either a terrific permanent feature, or a major pain to remove, reform and repour.
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
You do not pour concrete, you place it.
You only vibrate concrete from the bottom up. Get the vibrator to the bottom as fast as you can, then slowly pull the stinger up.
The only way to do the job described practically is having it pumped. A pumper truck with a boom is the easiest, how far you have to reach will determine the size of the boom. The more the boom, the more the cost. A line pump is handy but requires strong people, almost as strong as those guys that would desire to fill the piers by hand.
Lastly, have fun, concrete is not for the weak, the high anxiety type folk. Once hardened, it becomes either a terrific permanent feature, or a major pain to remove, reform and repour.
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
johnday
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RaT; We might have frost that moves the ground a little, but you've got earthquakes that move the ground alot!! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
_RaT_
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Your right about that. It depends where you build. In our area, we have a couple extra straps or hold downs. I have actually felt one earthquake in my life. In the Bay area however, the amount of extra detail to comply with earthquake code is pretty extensive. The good thing is, you end up with an incredibly strong home that doesn't move much. I've done commercial framing in the East Bay and it was interesting to see the extent to which they design structures. I also built a couple homes back in Maine. That too was an interesting experience and one I won't forget. It was just north of Camden just off Penobscot Bay. Rat
bgott
Veteran Member
Most pier and beam houses around here have a 16" square X 4" base pad with 2 cinder blocks ( double jambs if you buy 'em at the concrete company) 6' apart on the beams. I would go 3 high, I can't fit under the sill on my house and I'll have to cut a hole in the floor to get under it when I finally decide to level the house.
NoTrespassing
Veteran Member
<font color="blue"> This house I'm building is we'll say semi temporary but if "S" hits the rotary blades again it could be where I die </font>
Well, with that info let me ask this, Do you really have to build from scratch? A quick fix for us (I also have an understanding wife) was to buy a used manufactured house. It cost us just over $20K, is very livable, is very energy efficient, and should last another 15 yrs. easily. We put it on 24" dia. concrete piers with blocks on top of those. I put treated plywood skirting around it and you can't even tell its not on a foundation. I painted the plywood with textured gray paint, landscaped up to about 6" from the bottom of the vinyl siding and it looks like concrete. I don't pay taxes on it since it's not considered permanent. Keep in mind zoning laws.
Kevin
Well, with that info let me ask this, Do you really have to build from scratch? A quick fix for us (I also have an understanding wife) was to buy a used manufactured house. It cost us just over $20K, is very livable, is very energy efficient, and should last another 15 yrs. easily. We put it on 24" dia. concrete piers with blocks on top of those. I put treated plywood skirting around it and you can't even tell its not on a foundation. I painted the plywood with textured gray paint, landscaped up to about 6" from the bottom of the vinyl siding and it looks like concrete. I don't pay taxes on it since it's not considered permanent. Keep in mind zoning laws.
Kevin