Splicing a small I beam together

[downsizingnow48]

Thanks to ericher69 and commenters for a very instructive thread. I'm getting ready to weld up a thumb for my B21, which is beyond what I have done in the past. Next week will start a thread asking for advice and critique.

 

[Sodo]

No need to convince me that the splice welded with 252 is good enough

yup! :thumbsup:

Your right; had started and got into it next thing you know I was worried about warping therefore hurried.

One thing I've noticed about posting any project to forums. DURING your project, there are many details you balance that are crucial to the outcome of the project.

- materials available
- alignment
- eqpt available
- TIME available
- time taking pics for TBN ( & re-work necessary before posting )

Once you post a project, all these tasks that were decided at the time (go no-go decisions made) goes out the window. :confused3: Everyone has a different idea what your "finish level" shoulda been. For me, finishing before dark is an important factor more often than I'd ever expect. But still it's all worth it when you get a good suggestion from a member.

 

[ericher69]

Thanks to ericher69 and commenters for a very instructive thread. I'm getting ready to weld up a thumb for my B21, which is beyond what I have done in the past. Next week will start a thread asking for advice and critique.

Your welcome!

I look forward to your project. Will you post here in welding?

Arc Weld; you made a comment about too much heat!

Q-what is the issue with too much heat or amperage vs just right or proper amperage?

Shield Arc taught me to run MIG as hot as I can stand it to prevent cold lap.

Thanks for the input.

Sent from my iPhone 5s 64Gb using TractorByNet

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

finishing before dark is an important factor more often than I'd ever expect.

I've said "I want to finish before dark" more times than I care to think about....and then pulled out the big lights because I didn't make it :laughing:

Then it becomes "I have to finish this before morning" - because either I need it, or someone else does in the a.m.
Those nights suck

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

Your welcome!

I look forward to your project. Will you post here in welding?

Arc Weld; you made a comment about too much heat!

Q-what is the issue with too much heat or amperage vs just right or proper amperage?

Shield Arc taught me to run MIG as hot as I can stand it to prevent cold lap.

Thanks for the input.

Sent from my iPhone 5s 64Gb using TractorByNet

I don't see too much heat as a problem - as long as you don't leave undercut or any other flaws.

If that's happening, it's either too hot, or too hot for your technique.
(not sure which caused yours - but could be both?)

In my opinion that is.

Over all I like this thread

 

[ericher69]

I don't see too much heat as a problem - as long as you don't leave undercut or any other flaws. If that's happening, it's either too hot, or too hot for your technique. (not sure which caused yours - but could be both?) In my opinion that is. Over all I like this thread

I believe it was too hot for my technique- not used to welding at this higher amperage level. My previous MIG was a Lincoln SP170-T and I never had the "problem" of too hot; even tho this was a 230V MIG.

All in all it's really not a bad "problem" to have. Just gonna have to practice with it.

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[dragoneggs]

Great thread! Yeah SA taught me to go hot with MIG. Your 252 must be quite the machine. I was amazed with what SA did with my 211. He maxxed out the heat and successfully welded 3/4in plate!

 

[ericher69]

Great thread! Yeah SA taught me to go hot with MIG. Your 252 must be quite the machine. I was amazed with what SA did with my 211. He maxxed out the heat and successfully welded 3/4in plate!

Thanks I've tried a 350P which is the next model up in power but not near maxed out. So yes it does everything I want and then some!

It's rated at 1/2" single pass but with PROPER technique and skill sure it could weld much thicker!

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[BukitCase]

This jig is all 3/4 x 3" FB, done with my 252 with .035 and C25. 20 tons pressure on the pushes, slightly compressed the bottom of the female part during pushes, but no sign of weld damage after making 5 U's out of 1/2" x 3" FB. Cooling fan came on once or twice during weld-out ...Steve

 

[ericher69]

This jig is all 3/4 x 3" FB, done with my 252 with .035 and C25. 20 tons pressure on the pushes, slightly compressed the bottom of the female part during pushes, but no sign of weld damage after making 5 U's out of 1/2" x 3" FB. Cooling fan came on once or twice during weld-out ...Steve

Looks good!

What where your settings?

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[Blade Breaker]

Really it looks like the voltage was set to high for the wire diameter you are using. Tough to say from pictures. If your using .035 wire when you get over 25 or 26 volts (can't remember exact numbers atm) the way the wire is melting off can change from a short circuit transfer to a globular transfer. That can lead to lots of spatter and less penetration than a slightly lower setting. Each wire diameter has a limit to how much current it can carry from the tip to the base metal. Different shielding gasses can change the way the metal transfers to the base metal so it is hard to diagnose without being there. Also a long wire stick out can lower the wires ability to short circuit properly.

Sounds like there are many people that have welding questions here. Let me know if there is anything I can help with. I have been a welding instructor for many years part time and also hold over 40 certifications including high pressure steam pipe. Not bragging just letting you know.

Your welds look fine for the application. I do agree with load testing it for more than required to ensure some safety factor.

 

[BukitCase]

"What where your settings?"

Eric, I haven't bought a straight CO2 bottle or 90/10 yet, so had to stay with C25 - Miller doesn't recommend welding more than 3/8" with short circuit, so I went with 24 volts/500 IPM (upper range for 3/8" steel) - all welds were multi-pass, push, keeping at the front edge of the puddle to avoid cold lap.

Alternated sides from one pass to the next to minimize pull - ShieldArc suggested the sequence in another thread, which I (almost) followed

tacked together first, all bevels were about 40% of metal thickness for good penetration. Did NOT weld the INSIDE verticals to the base plate, no need with the heavy gussets and the two verticals came out within less than 1/32" of parallel to each other.

So far, in my limited MIG experience, it seems like you can go slower with lower settings or faster with higher settings, but REGARDLESS you will produce CRAP if you don't stay on the leading edge of the puddle. That's one of many tips that have helped me from Jody @ weldingtipsandtricks.com... Steve

 

[ericher69]

Really it looks like the voltage was set to high for the wire diameter you are using. Tough to say from pictures. If your using .035 wire when you get over 25 or 26 volts (can't remember exact numbers atm) the way the wire is melting off can change from a short circuit transfer to a globular transfer. That can lead to lots of spatter and less penetration than a slightly lower setting. Each wire diameter has a limit to how much current it can carry from the tip to the base metal. Different shielding gasses can change the way the metal transfers to the base metal so it is hard to diagnose without being there. Also a long wire stick out can lower the wires ability to short circuit properly. Sounds like there are many people that have welding questions here. Let me know if there is anything I can help with. I have been a welding instructor for many years part time and also hold over 40 certifications including high pressure steam pipe. Not bragging just letting you know. Your welds look fine for the application. I do agree with load testing it for more than required to ensure some safety factor.

Thanks for the analysis and offer to answer any questions.

I found this discussion on voltage and ipm settings

Wire speed vs. voltage. Which to Adjust.... [Archive] - WeldingWeb™ - Welding forum for pros and enthusiasts

When I checked the Miller App (after seeing another thread) it did not recommend 0.035 wire for 1/2"- even though the card on the front of the 252 has a recommendation.

I asked @Millerwelders on Twitter and the explanation they gave was that because of space restraints they couldn't fit it all on the cards. When I replied that the App had no settings I got crickets- no reply!

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[BukitCase]

Eric, are you gonna weld that beam in place or can you position it so you can weld it flat? I ask because spray isn't an out of position method. I've gotten the best results OOP by (short circuit, C25) just lowering wire speed a little from normal - both for vertical up and overhead. Welded quite a bit of .120" wall square tube that way, I just do a medium speed whip to avoid drips and burn through... Steve

Sorry, never mind - didn't realize I'd missed this much of your thread. Musta skipped page 3

 

[ericher69]

Eric, are you gonna weld that beam in place or can you position it so you can weld it flat? I ask because spray isn't an out of position method. I've gotten the best results OOP by (short circuit, C25) just lowering wire speed a little from normal - both for vertical up and overhead. Welded quite a bit of .120" wall square tube that way, I just do a medium speed whip to avoid drips and burn through... Steve

I may just support it with...wood; eek

Since the walls aren't sheet rocked thinking of tripling 2x4's and through bolting with carriage bolts.

I realize that spray is flat position weld but thanks for the reminder!

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[BukitCase]

Just wondered - saw your voltage setting at over 29 and it confluzed me... Steve

 

[Arc weld]

Your welcome!

I look forward to your project. Will you post here in welding?

Arc Weld; you made a comment about too much heat!

Q-what is the issue with too much heat or amperage vs just right or proper amperage?

Shield Arc taught me to run MIG as hot as I can stand it to prevent cold lap.

Thanks for the input.

Sent from my iPhone 5s 64Gb using TractorByNet

Nothing wrong with burning hot... if you can handle it and your pieces are big enough to take the heat. Kind of like stick welding. Some welders can burn 1/4" 7018 and do a real nice job on less than the biggest jobs but most welders get into trouble burning the big rods. For the same size weld, you have to go a lot faster. I think with your rather small I-beam it was building up too much for one pass because you were feeding so much wire into the puddle. Faster wire speed does raise the amps but at the same time feeds a lot more metal into the puddle. It's a balancing act to get the right heat and right speed. You don't want to fill the bevel in one pass unless it's thinner material. A little cooler gives you more control and makes it easier to manipulate the puddle. Too thick of a pass results is less strength. More passes gives a finer grain structure. You still enough amps for proper fusion though. It just takes some more practice and experimenting.

 

[ericher69]

Just wondered - saw your voltage setting at over 29 and it confluzed me... Steve

Just followed card settings on the front of 252.

Nothing wrong with burning hot... if you can handle it and your pieces are big enough to take the heat. Kind of like stick welding. Some welders can burn 1/4" 7018 and do a real nice job on less than the biggest jobs but most welders get into trouble burning the big rods. For the same size weld, you have to go a lot faster. I think with your rather small I-beam it was building up too much for one pass because you were feeding so much wire into the puddle. Faster wire speed does raise the amps but at the same time feeds a lot more metal into the puddle. It's a balancing act to get the right heat and right speed. You don't want to fill the bevel in one pass unless it's thinner material. A little cooler gives you more control and makes it easier to manipulate the puddle. Too thick of a pass results is less strength. More passes gives a finer grain structure. You still enough amps for proper fusion though. It just takes some more practice and experimenting.

Thank you for clarification!

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[BukitCase]

"Just followed card settings on the front of 252."

Man, this is really strange - you got me curious so I went looking - the cards on the front of MY 252 (about a 5 yr old machine) don't show ANY voltage settings above 25.5, so I got even MORE confused - checked the miller online calculator

Miller - MIG Welding Calculator

And it doesn't even HAVE settings for 1/2", except for spray transfer with .045 wire.

Then I checked the mm252 .pdf I downloaded last year, and found your settings - 1/2" steel, .035 wire, 29.5 volts @515 IPM with C25 gas.

Your machine is newer than mine, so somehow those numbers must have been changed AFTER mine was built. I'll see if I can find the paper manual that came with mine and compare those #'s, but I can sure see why your welds were kinda hot

The 3/8" settings in the newer manual are quite a bit higher voltage as well, compared to the online calculator and my older machine's cards, but 1/4" settings are nearly identical for old and new.

Personally, I think you might do better ordering one of the "slide rule" mig calculators, they're about $5 - I keep one with my machine 'cause the front cover is a PITA to open and close, and because I don't wanna go online every time I change settings.

At the voltage settings they call for now, I don't see how you'd keep from going into globular transfer... Steve

 

[square1]

Good informative thread! The type I had almost given up on looking for here Looks like the welding forum just might get back on the track

Thanks for posting your project.