Squatter's Rights

[jmc]

I think a business law class in high school mentioned something to the effect that if you allow someone access to or thru your property for long enough, then you can't stop them or others when you change your mind. Here's what I'm concerned about:

The 80 acres next to me are divided by a ravine that runs the entire width of their property. Call it the front 40 by the road, where the house and all the farm buildings are, and the back 40 near me, with just a cabin on it. The owners have retired from milking and are renting the front 40 and buildings out, with an option to buy. Part of that agreement reserves lifetime use of that cabin for the current owners. They still run about 8 cows for some reason, probably just pets.

We're been friendly for 20 years. Occasionally, when they had older friends visit or guests who were afraid of cattle, they would ask to access the cabin by using my 5/8 mile driveway, drive accross my field, then another 1/4 mile or so on their property. Otherwise, they walked back there from their farm buildings. Eventually, I told them use my access to their property without asking, figuring it would continue to be infrequent.

Well, since they're older now too, they come and go all the time thru my place, even bringing hay in for their cattle, one small pickup truck at a time. The path thru my property is now pretty well trampled but that's ok for someone I like. My concern is, if the renter buys the whole farm, can he claim that since I provided frequent access for so long a time, that the access applies to him as well?

(Yeah, I know, get a lawyer.) I probably will, depending on what others think about the situation. It shouldn't cost me when I'm just doing someone else a favor. I could ask them to have something drawn up legally at their expense but that's a little awkward, from a neighborly standpoint. Anybody else run into a similar situation?

 

[murphy1244]

no, don't worry about it.

 

[jinman]

I don't think you need to get a lawyer. You gave permission for occasional use and now the traffic has increased and become regular. Without going into the pros and cons of ever giving access, I'd say that asking you for a path around cattle on their own land is rather bold and presumptuous on their part. As a minimum, I'd put up a sign that said, "Private Property. Enter or cross at your own risk. No rights are implied, present or future." You can easily get that sign created by a quick sign place for around $50 on heavy aluminum. Discuss what you are doing with the owner. Tell them that the traffic has increased beyond your original intention and you'd prefer that they find a path across their own property. Simply say that it was done as a favor to them for convenience; however, the current traffic load is making it inconvenient for you. Explain that you want them to find a path on their own property and that your sign is a temporary measure before closing the access. Allowing them time to come up with a solution on their own property is far better than just closing the access. It they are reasonable people, they will understand and abide by your wishes without loss of friendship.

Understand that this is just what I'd do. It has no legal basis and I'm not a lawyer. I didn't even sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night or ever.

 

[ovrszd]

I don't think you have anything to worry about. You are under no obligation to continue to allow this crossing to anyone.

With that said, I understand longterm neighboring. I had the same neighbors for 35 years. They have both died now and their grandaughter and her family live there now. First thing my wife and I did was take them a welcome to the neighborhood pie. Had a nice visit with them and casually talked about our relationship with their grandparents and how we often traded help. Sort of informally laid out the ground rules. We get along great with no false expectations or "rights". As soon as you have new neighbors I'd suggest something similar. In the electronic world we live in now common communication and social skills are overlooked. Hope it all works out for you. I understand your anxiety.

 

[milkman636]

You basically have granted them an implied easement to your property already. You are smart to want to define it now before it becomes an issue. If you leave it open ended it does have the possibility of biting you later. A lawyer would be a good option, he could draft an agreement between you and them that would limit their rights to aceesing the property for a certian period of time for limited purposes.

If you want to avoid a lawyer you might just discuss your concerns directly with the neighbors. I think you could simply draw up a letter of understanding between you and them. It should name all parties specifically by name and state that you are granting them specifically the right to cross your land for a defined period of time, say five years, for the specific purpose of accessing their cabin. Then have all parties sign it in front of a notary public. This would limit the rights you are granting to specific persons you are allowing for a defined period of time. Having it notarized would prove in court that it was a witnessed covenant between you and them that expired at the agreed upon time. A lawyer might even suggest having the easement recorded with the county. Personally I would talk to one on this.

 

[smstonypoint]

Like Jim, I'm not a lawyer. However, I have watched every episode of Rumpole of the Bailey.

I think the issue involves the possibility of a "prescriptive easement." I'm admittedly **** about such matters, so I would run it by a lawyer if I was in your shoes.

Steve

 

[TCJatko]

It's called "adverse posession". Generally speaking, if someone occupies your property openly, with your knowledge, for a statutory period ( varies by state, here in New Hampshire it's 20 years) then they may be able to claim title to that portion of the property through legal action. There is also an old saying that "permissive use can never ripen into adverse posession". All this being said, get some legal advice locally.

 

[brin]

I am not a lawyer but have dealt with land and acreage, buying and selling for many years....In my opinion you have granted the couple a license to use that portion of your property to access their property...that license can be cancelled by you simply telling them to stop or installing a gate. I hope this helps you.

" Licenses

A license, unlike an easement, is having the permission of the owner葉he licensor葉o enter his land for a specific purpose. Unlike an easement, the license can be rescinded at any time. A license will also terminate upon the death of either the licensee or the licensor, or if the licensor sells the land. Hence, although a license is similar to an easement, a license is not actually an encumbrance on the real estate and does not transfer with the title. "

Real Estate Encumbrances: Liens, Deed Restrictions, Easements, and Encroachments

 

[2LaneCruzer]

As a general consideration, for them to take by adverse possession, they have to claim that the right is theirs by openly claiming that right...in other words, they have to claim it is theirs and act like it is theirs before the whole world, including you. I suggest you contact a lawyer versed in property law and get this straightened out; else someone might actually claim that they have a legal easement, thus clouding your title. There is also a legal concept called "estoppel", which basically means that you have let me use this to my detriment for so long that you can no longer claim otherwise. These laws can and do vary from state to state, and they can be quite different.

 

[TripleR]

Here is something that "might" apply:What Is an Implied Easement?

I do, however agree it is may be best to consult an attorney in your area, there are some on TBN, but as mentioned different laws may apply in different states.

I realize the cat is out of the bag in your situation, but having run into problems in the past, I don't let anyone use our land on an ongoing basis and only rarely otherwise.

 

[Ed of all trades]

Depends on state laws, I have heard that in Va it is true.

 

[rich_ncal]

I agree with Ed it varies by state. You could search for "Prescriptive Easement" with "Vermont law".

It often must be continuous, for example if you tell the renter your locking a gate for a month for some reason and please do not go across the property during that time, this could reset the clock. Other options like granting the permission in writing with you clear statement it is limited and can end when you choose, and no trespassing signs could may be helpful if that applies in your state.

Just a quick search I found in Vermont 2010 VT 91

To establish a prescriptive easement, plaintiff's use of the land must have been open, notorious, continuous for fifteen years, and hostile or under claim of right. Greenberg v. Hadwen, 145 Vt. 112, 114, 484 A.2d 916, 917 (1984).

The fifteen year limit is unique to Vermont in California it is five years.

My advice is to research this online and then decide if you need a lawyer. Lawyer are expensive. In my area real estate lawyers charge $250/hr. Some will consult with you for a one hour charge, other may want a retainer first.

 

[MasseyWV]

It's called "adverse posession". Generally speaking, if someone occupies your property openly, with your knowledge, for a statutory period ( varies by state, here in New Hampshire it's 20 years) then they may be able to claim title to that portion of the property through legal action. There is also an old saying that "permissive use can never ripen into adverse posession". All this being said, get some legal advice locally.

I agree, consulting a lawyer is the best option.

 

[rich_ncal]

Interenting quote from TCJatko 'There is also an old saying that "permissive use can never ripen into adverse posession".'

Seems to be true in Vermont - http://www.vermontjudiciary.org/TCDecisionCvl/2005-8-24-1.pdf

Both the adverse possession and prescriptive easement claims may be defeated if Defendant's use is shown to be permissive. See Id. (holding that use of " road by permission is not adverse unless there has been a repudiation 'either made known expressly or clearly indicated by unequivocal actions.' " (quoting In re Estate of Smilie, 135 Vt. 217, 220 (1977));

 

[greasemonkeyok]

I am not a lawyer but have dealt with land and acreage, buying and selling for many years....In my opinion you have granted the couple a license to use that portion of your property to access their property...that license can be cancelled by you simply telling them to stop or installing a gate. I hope this helps you.

" Licenses

A license, unlike an easement, is having the permission of the owner葉he licensor葉o enter his land for a specific purpose. Unlike an easement, the license can be rescinded at any time. A license will also terminate upon the death of either the licensee or the licensor, or if the licensor sells the land. Hence, although a license is similar to an easement, a license is not actually an encumbrance on the real estate and does not transfer with the title. "

Real Estate Encumbrances: Liens, Deed Restrictions, Easements, and Encroachments

Bob's answer sounds like the best fit.

 

[sam5570]

we just this year had a simular case as your's at a neighbor. i had been told years ago that these people didnot have a right away thru the lane on my neighbor's property but he and them got along so for over 60 years they used his lane to acess there property. ok he past on and the elder people on the ajasent property past on, ok now it's the kid's so the people who had been using the lane to get to there property decids to put up a gate, thats when the kids from the family that owned the property they were crossing said you cannot put up a gate because you donnot have a right of way thru our property. end results in virginia if you donnot have a right of way on your deed then you donnot have a right of way regardless of how long you have been using the property. now keep in mind that is virginia not id. what you are saying in your post is 2 totally diferent thing's.squatter's rights and a right of way are totally different. check your state law's but you can probably stop these people from crossing your property any time you want to.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

we just this year had a simular case as your's at a neighbor. i had been told years ago that these people didnot have a right away thru the lane on my neighbor's property but he and them got along so for over 60 years they used his lane to acess there property. ok he past on and the elder people on the ajasent property past on, ok now it's the kid's so the people who had been using the lane to get to there property decids to put up a gate, thats when the kids from the family that owned the property they were crossing said you cannot put up a gate because you donnot have a right of way thru our property. end results in virginia if you donnot have a right of way on your deed then you donnot have a right of way regardless of how long you have been using the property. now keep in mind that is virginia not id. what you are saying in your post is 2 totally diferent thing's.squatter's rights and a right of way are totally different. check your state law's but you can probably stop these people from crossing your property any time you want to.

Maybe. Not all states recognize squatter's rights; and some have modified it by statute. I know my Granddad lost 5 acres in NE Oklahoma because some guy moved in, built a cabin and lived there long enough to establish adverse possession. Check with a local lawyer who practices in the property law area.

 

[sam5570]

Maybe. Not all states recognize squatter's rights; and some have modified it by statute. I know my Granddad lost 5 acres in NE Oklahoma because some guy moved in, built a cabin and lived there long enough to establish adverse possession. Check with a local lawyer who practices in the property law area.

2Lane like i was saying he is not dealling with someone trying to take his property, they are just driving across his property to get to there property. this totally diferent from squatter's right's deal where someone ocupie's a certain peace of property for a period of time then tries to claim ownership.

 

[zzvyb6]

Go ahead and put up your $50. sign. I'll bet it doesn't last more than a week before its history. Hire a bulldozer to ditch the lane and stop it cold. Otherwise, you will only get an ulcer out of it.

 

[greasemonkeyok]

Google search retruns this statute:
"IC 32-23-1-1
Use for 20 years
Sec. 1. The right-of-way, air, light, or other easement from, in, upon, or over land owned by a person may not be acquired by another person by adverse use unless the use is uninterrupted for at least twenty (20) years.
As added by P.L.2-2002, SEC.8."

Don't know anything about the law in Indianna, but it seems that if the use was by permission or consent, it wouldn't be adverse. I'd get one of these guys to tell me what to do:
http://www.jacobatzlaw.com/prescriptive_easement_article_0811.html