Stabilizing a treacherous SxS trail- advice?

jmc · Dec 5, 2019

It's hard to describe a 3D contour:

If I'm descending this 100 foot long trail section, the top half of which is slippery, I'm going down a narrow, 20 degree slope. Luckily, there is no side to side slope. On my right, there is a drop off along the slippery section. On my left, there's nice trees I don't want to remove. Also, the slippery section curves slightly to the left, so loss of straight-line traction (sledding) could send you off the trail as well.

This section is worth some effort since it connects a nice but dead end trail along the creek with a loop on the ridge. Staircase effect due to cross timbers would be taken at creeping speed, due to the pucker factor in this section.

Hammer drill would work well in bedrock section but iffy in rubble.

As a first step, I might just cover the section with nearby river gravel and see how it look. Then build up from there.

ovrszd · Dec 5, 2019

EddieWalker said:
Too many options that could make it worse instead of better. Pictures would be very helpful. The biggest concern would be the moisture getting under what you put down and acting as a lubricant that will allow for catastrophic failure when something is on top of it, and both the vehicle and what it's resting on, slides off the rock at the same time.

I agree with Eddie. Adding loose material will be detrimental. Especially timbers that you have to jump over.

I have miles of timber trails on steep terrain. Some of them aren't used certain times of the year and/or during wet times.

Every situation is different. Hard for any of us to truly understand the conditions there.

ovrszd · Dec 5, 2019

jmc said:
As a first step, I might just cover the section with nearby river gravel and see how it look. Then build up from there.

I cannot think of a single thing that would make this trail worse than putting river gravel on it. Maybe a plastic tarp. But then at least it would stay in one piece.

EddieWalker · Dec 5, 2019

jmc said:
On my left, there's nice trees I don't want to remove.

Easily some of my biggest mistakes where in leaving trees in place when my life, and profit from a project, would have been better if the trees had been removed. This was a hard lesson to learn, but after awhile, I realized that I never missed those trees when they where gone. I would think very hard on how much better life would be if those trees where removed, especially if there is a safer way to do what you want to do if those trees where not there.

Diggin It · Dec 5, 2019

jmc said:
Luckily, there is no side to side slope. On my right, there is a drop off along the slippery section. On my left, there's nice trees I don't want to remove. Also, the slippery section curves slightly to the left, so loss of straight-line traction (sledding) could send you off the trail as well.

<snip>

As a first step, I might just cover the section with nearby river gravel and see how it look. Then build up from there.

I'd be looking at a way to shore that side up, maybe even a form of guardrail. Set posts as deep as you can, or drill into the rock.

River rock is marbles. Would severely increase the pucker factor to the point you'd only make that trip once. You want crushed or broken rock/gravel with sharp edges that will dig into the ground and lock together.

nyone · Dec 5, 2019

River rock is not the best choice but if you cover the trail in just one layer and let it sink/pack in the dirt it may help. It should stabilize the surface a bit better than nothing.

jmc · Dec 5, 2019

OP here. That nearby creek gravel is not like classic river rock. It's broken down sedimentary stone that hasn't worked it's way downstream for miles and miles yet. Bigger stuff is flat shards of of rock, which I would keep to a minimum. Underlying finer stuff is like giant grains of sand with some clay in it. Not as good as the top coat of #53s I was planning, but would be a convenient base in places where it wouldn't slide.

Sorry to hear the short longevity of landscape timbers. Any suggestions on finding smaller diameter treated posts? (Creosote or similar)

Appreciate all your comments.

John_Mc · Dec 5, 2019

jmc said:
Sorry to hear the short longevity of landscape timbers. Any suggestions on finding smaller diameter treated posts? (Creosote or similar.

Do you have any Black Locust growing in your area? It's very rot resistant. The Black Locust I've used for posts and on our obstacle course holds up better than pressure treated lumber.

I don't know your situation for the trail, but if it were me, I'd be looking to reroute the trail, if at all possible. Our forester is big on having a trail system that will stand up to erosion and works for whatever uses we intend. He's always saying things like: "put the trail where it needs to be. You are not doing yourself or the trees any favor if you try to skirt around them and end up with a trail that is not robust. Build the trail once, build it right, and keep up with the maintenance. Anything else is just going to keep giving you headaches."

pmsmechanic · Dec 5, 2019

Maybe I'm making this sound a bit too easy but if there is bedrock involved how hard would to be to drill some holes, hammer in some rebar and cement in a curb to keep side x sides from sliding off of the trail?