starting a Stihl saw

   / starting a Stihl saw #41  
"midlf, just out of curiousity have you ever simply cracked the gas cap open when your saw won't start? It almost seems like a clogged air vent may be causing your problem."

Good suggestion - I have not looked for a plugged gas cap. If the tank looks low I fill it and it always looked low when it wouldn't start. I'll try cracking the cap the next time it happens.


I did get that your Husky comments were tongue in cheek when I read the line about your dealer.

You also comment on lefties having the bar pointed at their face. I always want to be able to read the mfr name on the bar as I am using the saw. This keeps my face to the side. When I make deep cuts I catch myself looking down the cut to see how I am doing, not good.
 
   / starting a Stihl saw #42  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I always want to be able to read the mfr name on the bar as I am using the saw. )</font>

I just had to go pick my saw up left handed, to see what you're saying. It points the saw up over your shoulder, doesn't it? I guess that's one way you adapt to a right handed world.
I'm left handed for some things, but fortunately not running saws.

I once knew a wood cutter who told of working with a left handed partner; he'd file one side of the chain, hispartner would file the other.
 
   / starting a Stihl saw #43  
<font color="blue"> John, I have read many of your long-winded posts here and there and I can now agree that you have some great info with Sthil products and starting methods. </font>

Ummm - well hey wushaw .... thanks ... ermmm ... thanks for those uhhhh ... those mostly kind words. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

You remind me that I have on occasion been a little "spendy" with my verbiage - I'll see if I can tighten things up a bit. Remember though, the best steak has some fat on it. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I used to use a grinder myself, the Oregon 251 that you might just have. I sold it for what I paid for it ($200) about 10 years ago, but you know what? After reading your post, I just decided to pick up another one for the sole purpose of salvaging chains that have had run-ins with rocks and can't realistically be brought back to life with hand filing. You know the ones I mean, rounded over about 1/8" and would take about 75 strokes per cutter by hand. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I'm looking forward to posting a big, long treatise on chain, chain sharpening, bars, bar maintenance, and yes, even sprockets (woohoo!) (aka shprockets for my German-American friends out there). /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif (SNL reference).

One of the biggies that will be stressed is that the cutter must be absolutely razor-sharp (well, close to it; knife-sharp?) in order to do its thing. Sounds obvious, but my point is that when/if you sharpen with a (fresh, new, great-cutting) file, you can't take a few half-hearted swipes at the cutter and say "OK, that's good enough". The entire leading edge of the cutter, but ESPECIALLY the very front point of the cutter MUST be absolutely sharp, or your chain will NOT cut well. This is especially true on a full-chisel chain, where the front point, the first part of the cutter that starts each cut, is more like a single point than on the slightly more (but not much more) forgiving leading edge of a semi-chisel chain, whose leading front "point" is actually an arc.

Once a cutter has been sharpened to the state, absolutely razor sharp, at the proper top plate angle (the angle that those laser-etched lines on the top of the cutter are at, 25-35 degrees depending on the chain model and/or mfr., but in a pinch 30 degrees will get you down the road just fine every time), with its rakers taken down to .025 (just fine in the vast majority of cases), and is running on a bar that is in good shape, it will cut like nothing you will have probably ever experienced before.

I say this because as I mentioned before, brand-new, out of the box chain typically has rakers that are set way too high. When we tune up a "new" chain its proper settings, the difference in performance is downright startling. So in short, I suspect that many users out there, (except you - that's right, you - you know who you are - you've figured it out and know what I mean) who by getting, and KEEPING their chains in this state will be cutting like they have NEVER cut before, even with a new chain.

And once your chain is sharp like this, KEEP it sharp like this! NO HITTING THE GROUND, NOT EVEN A TEENY LITTLE BIT! This will take the keen edge off your chain in ONE SECOND FLAT! It took me YEARS, yes YEARS to finally get this through my thick skull! A Samurai does not use his sword for digging in the garden!

Rocks and metal are of course the two mortal enemies of the chain. Rocks are the more avoidable of the two, and you have to be constantly vigilant to avoid them. Always be aware of what is underneath, or just behind that log or branch you are cutting. There is nothing more disheartening than to see all of your fine sharpening efforts get destroyed in a heartbeat in a dazzling display of sparks.. When you hit a rock, pretty much forget restoring it by hand. Maybe have it sharpened on a grinder, but remember that it will usually then be more difficult to sharpen by hand.

As for metal, be constantly on the lookout for it - old clothelines, eyebolts for hammocks, screws and brackets for light fixtures, any of the many things people attach to trees. And it's often found right inside the tree, long-since covered over by years and years of growth rings. Nothing whatsoever you can do about those hunks of metal, it's just the luck of the draw.

OK - just to review: get it sharp, keep it sharp, and when it becomes "wood dull" - i.e., the cutter doesn't look noticeably dull, but you can tell that the chain isn't slicing the way it should be, and you're having to exert just a little too much force to make a cut, or the chips aren't flying like they were .... STOP! .... the chain isn't going to get any better without a little action on your part. Just take your little rubber-rollered thingie, give each cutter as many strokes as it takes to restore a razor sharp edge (just 3 or 4 if you've been good), and it will cut like new (well, better than new) again. No need to take the rakers down each time, especially if you just give it a few strokes. You'll know when its time, it just depends on how much cutter you've filed away. But keep the chain sharp, heat is the enemy of bars, chains and engines. Don't struggle with a dull chain, it's a good way to get tired, frustrated, and then hurt.

Lastly, why do rakers have to be continually taken down? Notice how the cutter is angled downward from leading edge to trailing edge. As more material cuts filed away, the lower the leading edge becomes, relative to the raker. Keep that distance at .025, or very close to it, with a sharp cutter, and you're styling.

One final point. Yet another reason to keep the cutter razor sharp is that the part of the cutter that does the actual cutting is the chrome plating found on the very surface of the cutter. Wear that away, and you're cutting with the relatively softer metal underneath the chrome, wear accelerates drastically, and performance goes to he$$ in a handbasket.

Don't be like the woodsman who is so busy chopping down trees that he can't afford to take the time to stop and sharpen his dull axe! And as always, be careful with that thang.
 
   / starting a Stihl saw #44  
Between my father and I, we've had 7 STIHL saws over the last 18 years and are currently using 6 plus a pole pruner/saw. Everyone has started without problem. Follow the instructions and you should always be just fine. The only issue I've ever had, and had the same with other 2 cycle engines, is that if the engine has set for several months, it may take quite a few pulls to get the initial firing. As others have said, once you hear that, then back the choke off (simply by flipping the single lever one notch) and pull another time or two. Flooding only occurs if you don't hear that first firing, which if the saw has been recently used, occurs after a few pulls, or numerous, as I said, if the saw has sat for months. I disagree with those that say to step the choke back after a couple of pulls because if it hasn't been started in a while, 2 or 3 pulls won't be enough to get the gas flowing. The only time this isn't true is with some of STIHL's new, smaller saws that have a priming bulb. With those, you can expect firing in the first few pulls, regardless of how long the saw may have sat. I also have a STIHL string trimmer and new top of the line 4-cycle, 4-MIX blower. You won't find better equipment!!!
 
   / starting a Stihl saw #45  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I know you can get Echos at Home Depot, but who do you get to service them?)</font>

Can YOU change a spark plug, clean the air filter? That will be all the service the ECHO will need for 20 years.
But if it makes you feel better, <font color="orange">ECHO's</font> website can put you in touch with your nearby dealers.
<font color="blue">PLUS, try this:</font>
Pick a saw model from your favorite brands.
Now, on that manufacturer's website, try to find a manual, or a spark plug number, or an air filter number, so you can call somewhere for a part by number before you, say, head for the house from work. (I just remembered, I need XXX for my WXYZ saw before I go home for the weekend; because, from the ranch it's an hour drive to come get it) We've all done that.

Last time I tried this, ECHO was the only one that you will find the information for. One caveat, for sparkplugs, many of the plug companies do list numbers by application.
Stihl, Husqvarna, Dolmar, Jonsered all want you to see a "servicing" dealer.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Echos haven't been mentioned here very much. )</font>
SWB, people tend to be like spiders; that is, things that don't land on their web are very foreign to them and therefore they tend not to trust anything "new".
I've seen the quality of all three saws (ST*, HU*, & EC*) to me you can't go wrong with any one of the three, but a lot of people seem like they don't take the Japanese saws very seriously. But they do have very high build quality. Granted, it would be an uphill battle for those saws to win out in heavy duty logging where the European brands rule, but these are making a real effort to be taken seriously.
Another couple of Japanese brands that are beuno are <font color="red">Tanaka</font> , and <font color="brown">Shindaiwa</font>. They also have very good quality, but the dealers are farther between.
 
   / starting a Stihl saw #46  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ECHO's website can put you in touch with your nearby dealers.)</font>

I took you up on your challenge... it turns out I can get them at the same places I already do business. Like many (most?) people I stick with what I've had good luck with, but if the price is right I'd buy most any saw as long as it had an inertia brake.
I could be mistaken but I believe that Echo actually pioneered the brush saw industry.
 
   / starting a Stihl saw #47  
Jst - I've been meaning to reply to your post which was in response to the one in which I kinda "ripped you a new one". I feel really bad about that, and I'm going to try harder to be kinder in my posts. "Righteous indignation" isn't much better than the sarcasm and "attacks" that I don't like, yet still find myself engaging in. I was particularly moved, saddened even, when you said <font color="blue">everything I try to say comes across wrong, which is why I don't post much. Sorry if I stepped on your toes. </font> In fact, it made me feel ashamed of myself. The last thing I want to do is discourage anyone from posting. Everyone here, obviously you included, has a lot of great things to say. You made a lot of great points just in that post alone. Please accept my apologies for being too harsh, and please keep the posts coming. I'm not perfect, you're probably not perfect, no one here is perfect, but we all have things to say, and it's important that we all feel free to say them as best we can, without some jerk like me getting all bent out of shape about how we say them. Again, my apologies. And thanks for your kind words, they'll encourage me to keep working on making my posts useful, but more importantly, free of the very emotion that I profess such disdain for, and that gets in the way of the friendly, kind and useful exchanges that are what make this site so great.

Also: I really enjoyed your comments about the Humboldt notch. (For those unfamiliar, it's where the bottom part of the notch is angled down so that the tree being felled can slide down it, away from the feller). On plunge cuts: interestingly, my Stihl 066 manual (and probably all the others, I haven't checked) tells how to perform them, specifically when felling a tree that is wider than twice your bar length. They tell you how to plunge in perpendicular to the notch cut (bisecting the hinge) so you can cut the part of the tree that you can't get from the sides. Naturally, they tell you to be VERY careful because of the kickback potential involved in using the nose of the bar. I'm actually kind of surprised they put that in there. By the way, there is NO mention of drop starting, which does NOT surprise me. Flat on the ground with right foot tucked into the handle, and the "between the legs" method are the only ones mentioned.

Lastly, to all: This whole business of chain saws, felling methods, and particulary sharpening and maintenance, is obviously near and dear to my heart, and I feel a genuine desire to share information that I really think will be useful. One of the hazards and complications of trying to do so lies in sharing it in a way that doesn't offend people who know just as much about it, if not more, than the "teller" does. None of us, myself included, likes to hear someone saying something as if we ourselves don't already know it, or worse yet, something that we might feel isn't even accurate to boot. It's hard to present information so that it's helpful to those who don't yet know about something, while not irritating those who already do. To the latter group, I apologize for presenting anything that doesn't seem to respect your knowledge and life experiences, because I sure do. And as always, I welcome any and all constructive criticism, even if it's "hey, why don't you shut the he$$ up and give us all a break"?

Thanks for letting me get this off my chest. I sure do love this place, and the people in it, and machines, and anything having to do with just about anything. This sure is an interesting world, I'm really going to miss it when I'm gone, and all of you as well. I just want to be sure that in the meantime, I'm coming from the right place, and not being anything but kind and helpful, or god forbid, downright annoying.

Thanks, John

PS In one of my next posts (unless I hear a resounding "shut the he$$ up!"), I'll post some pics of the little sharpening gizmo's I keep talking about, and where to get them. A picture is worth a thousand words, which is coincidentally about the average length of one of my posts. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
   / starting a Stihl saw #48  
It only takes 8 to 10 pulls when it has sat for months.I suspect the crank seals might be drying up,or the gas is draining back to the tank.Over night or within a week it will start 3rd or 4th pull.4 to 5 cord since 87 it has earned its keep.SAFETY COPS HAVE ARRIVED: It aint safe to start a saw by holding it in one hand and pulling with the other.FOOT ON IT ON THE FLOOR,IS BEST[although i dont with my stihl.My new DOMAR has so much compression,you want your foot on that sucker,and i aint no weakling!!!!
 
   / starting a Stihl saw
  • Thread Starter
#49  
hobbyfarm,

Thanks for your comments on the Echo. I am just about sold on the Stihl because of the local dealer, but I did look on the Echo website and found a nearby dealer who I will visit before I make a final decision. As you all may realize, I am a relative novice on this and have only used a chain saw a few times (A Poulan and I don't have anything good to say about it). The reason I am leaning towards the Stihl is the dealer who makes sure you are given his individual detailed instructions and demonstration of its use before he lets you leave with a saw you purchase from him. I think I need that.

CT Tree Guy.

All your comments are a great learning experience for me. Some I won't be able to appreciate until I have used a saw for some time, but I really value your expertise on these matters and I am keeping your posts for future reference and continued learning. Thanks.
 
   / starting a Stihl saw #50  
My dad bought a Stihl (I think an 026?) in about 1980 and has lived in a home heated exclusively by a woodstove during the same period. He also has helped countless people with their woodcutting. And his Stihl has been there, reliably, and with enthusiasm 99.9% of the time. I even used it as a teen doing chores. It would be really interesting to know the hours on it.
Well, I bought a place out in the sticks and Stihl was the obvious choice, so I picked up a 260 Pro. It starts just like most people here stated. Usually 1-2 choke pulls until it "thinks about starting" and then a no choke pull and away we go.
I too use the drop pull method. I don't understand why some strongly feel it's so dangerous, but being safe is rarely a bad thing... so whatever makes you happy /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
So anyways, my dad came over a few weeks ago to help me cut up some wood I have around here. Some of it BIG wood. I really just needed his bigger saw, but he gets a trailer load of split wood out of the deal, so we both win. Sadly, the tired old Stihl finally, for the first time, had it's pull start rope broken. My dad was bummed and I was bummed. I was feeling generous and went and bought him a brand new 460 with a 28" bar.
So the next weekend we try again. He fires that bad boy up and we get to cutting. I look over and am BLOWN AWAY how fast he is mowing through the wood. So I ask to drive for a bit. And am further amazed. The next day I went and bought myself one.
The difference in power between the 260 and the 460 is big. And the 460 starts just as easily, although if it decides to kick, prepare for bad juju. The trick is to be brutal every time. If you give it a limp wristed pull it will take advantage of you.
But back to the drop start thing... when I use this method, I have my left hand on top bar handle (where your left hand normally is when cutting) and my right hand pulls the starter. The saw is ballanced. I have tried with my right hand on the saw, squeezing the throttle, and pulling the starter handle with my left hand, and it's seems WAY scary to me. Maybe we are all thinking of different ways?

CT_Tree dude, I really enjoy reading your posts. In this thread and elsewhere. You are a spirited one! I am like you it would seem. I am just starting to realize that each word, sentence, paragraph can have more than one meaning.
 
   / starting a Stihl saw #51  
John, there is nothin wrong with your long post /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Just a little ribbin.
I use the Oregon 511A bench grinder that I mounted to a piece of angle aluminum so I can just put it in my vise when I need it and put it away when not needed, so basically it's a QA bench chain grinder, just like my rivet spinner and chain breaker.
 
   / starting a Stihl saw #52  
jeepinator,

I'm not all that experienced in saws, compared to some of the other guys. But, I have to say, the way you describe drop starting yours seems to be the most dangerous... Like you said the saw is balanced, which means that if it is so inclined form hitting something or maybe it kicks back while starting, the bar is able to head straight to your face and arm.... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif.. I would recomend thinking about this a bit, some other guys may be able to give you more info.... If you are "throwing" the saw away from your body while drop starting, its less likley to come back against your controlling right hand/rist....

Just my opinion I guess... Be carefull...
 
   / starting a Stihl saw #53  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( jeepinator,

I'm not all that experienced in saws, compared to some of the other guys. But, I have to say, the way you describe drop starting yours seems to be the most dangerous... Like you said the saw is balanced, which means that if it is so inclined form hitting something or maybe it kicks back while starting, the bar is able to head straight to your face and arm.... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif.. I would recomend thinking about this a bit, some other guys may be able to give you more info.... If you are "throwing" the saw away from your body while drop starting, its less likley to come back against your controlling right hand/rist....

Just my opinion I guess... Be carefull... )</font>

Drop starting is usually mentioned in the saw manual. When it is it is always as 'don't do it'. At least that is the way it was in the three new saws I bought (Homey, Poulan, Stihl) over the years. Not sure if it is in the Stihl come to think of it. I started to read it for how to operate (starting, etc.) but that information was buried in 'don't do this' for page after page. I would get 1 paragraph of actual information followed by two pages of safety stuff, none that was new to me. It was the lousiest operating manual I have ever seen.

Harry K
 
   / starting a Stihl saw #54  
Got a 260pro myself which is great for our softwoods up here. I'm a btw the knees starter myself as my boots are nowhere near sized to step through the handle.

It always starts, except once, the original cloth filter is no good in snow. Freezes up quickly when the saw is shut down.

I'm a plunge cutter when felling but your have to be confident of where that tip is going and what it wants to do in order to control it.

I'm also a recent wedge convert, it is great to be able to fell with plunge cutting and wedges and drop stuff onto a pin.
 
   / starting a Stihl saw #55  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Got a 260pro myself which is great for our softwoods up here. I'm a btw the knees starter myself as my boots are nowhere near sized to step through the handle.

It always starts, except once, the original cloth filter is no good in snow. Freezes up quickly when the saw is shut down.

I'm a plunge cutter when felling but your have to be confident of where that tip is going and what it wants to do in order to control it.

I'm also a recent wedge convert, it is great to be able to fell with plunge cutting and wedges and drop stuff onto a pin. )</font>

After over 30 years of doing 6-10 cord a year, I can drop a tree on a pin every time. Of course I won't specify how many pins I will set out first. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Have a summer coming up of falling about 6 or 8 big trees (30" plus DBH) with some of the leaning pretty good. Looks like it it time to try out the plunge technique as well as my usual "chain it to prevet barber chair).

Harry K
 
   / starting a Stihl saw #56  
Just wanted to post some pics of the sharpening gizmo's that I use, and supply some info on where to get them. This attachment shows the filing jig that goes onto the chain (with chain on saw). They are super-convenient and do a great job.

Here's a link to Sherrill Arborist Supply. They're a great outfit with an incredibly informative catalog. If you call them (800-525-8873) they'd be happy to send you one. It has all kinds of great info about knots, ropes, rigging devices, slings, pulleys, weights of green logs, chain, chain sharpening, recreational tree climbing, etc.

Sherrill Arborist Supply

And here is a link to Bailey's. They are THE place to go for chains, files and lots of other cool stuff. Their number is (800-322-4539). The guys answering the phone will know what your saw had for breakfast this morning.

Bailey's

I'll attach a pic of the raker gauge to the next post.
 

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  • 794326-filingjig.bmp
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   / starting a Stihl saw #57  
Here's the pic of the raker gauge.

With these two basic tools, plus a file for the cutter and a raker file, you can sharpen any saw so that it will cut better than a new chain fresh out of the box.

Also highly recommended: <ul type="square">
A good file holder

Aluminum/rubber vise jaws [/list]

And for bar maintenance:

<ul type="square"> 10" mill file

Pferd bar edge sharpener [/list]
 

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  • 794346-rakergauge2.bmp
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   / starting a Stihl saw #58  
John:

You are going to hate me for this, but.....

Besides the '28 (which will be yours minus the bar this summer) and the '75, I have a Mc Collugh (sic) that always starts on the first pull even if it sits in the garage for a year, is really light weight, almost pollution free and I only paid 50 bucks for it from the guy down the road who didn't know how to sharpen a chain let alone not enough sense not to cut railroad ties with it.. I would never consider taking it to the woods but it's great for around the house. It's ELECTRIC!!

My wife uses it all the time, she actually keeps the bar oil tank full and checks the site window. I guess I could take it to the woods if I took the generator. It don't have enough hair to pull .404 but the, I think .178 chipper chain works well.

No mixing gas and oil, no fumes, no noise (whrrr, whrrr), no vapor lock, no maintenance (other than cahin sharpening) and tension. I did cut the cord once and no matter how hard I yanked the severed cord...it wouldn't start. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

When I first got it, I thought it was a toy. The chain compared to the .404 is small, the saw itself is real light, about 7 pounds bar and all. Just right for my wife, who, is much more careful about the cord than I am. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
   / starting a Stihl saw #59  
<font color="blue">You are going to hate me for this, but..... It's ELECTRIC!!!!!!!!???????? </font> /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

hehe ... Daryl, I couldn't hate you if I tried, which I never would anyway. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Just like you needn't bring a nuclear bomb to a knife fight, there's a place for everything, including an electric chain saw!

Let's see: The advantages:

<ul type="square"> Very easy to start (unless you cut the cord) /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

No pollution

Quiet

No mixing and storing gas/oil mix

Not smelly

No getting gasoline all over you

Lightweight and easy to use [/list]
The disadvantages:

Some jerk might have a problem with you having an electric chain saw, in which case you just switch it on and cut him up into little pieces with it. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Merry Christmas Daryl, and everybody! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

John
 
   / starting a Stihl saw #60  
John:

Merry Christmas to you as well as a safe and prosperous New Year.

I suspect that my wife and I will watch Tim Allen in the "Santa Clause" this year as we do every year on Christmas Eve. That movie never gets old. My favorite part is the scene from Denny's. I know their disgust with the coffee. Been there and drank that. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

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