Starting a vineyard

[czechsonofagun]

I search TBN with no results. Anybody hear started a vineyard or at least planted some wine? I would like to have a row of table wine and few rows of some OK red.

 

[ToadHill]

I've planted a few rows but I'm a bit cold to have a lot of success. You may want to PM Robert in NY he has some land in grapes.

 

[RobertN]

I search TBN with no results. Anybody hear started a vineyard or at least planted some wine? I would like to have a row of table wine and few rows of some OK red.

Check your county Ag office, or Master Gardener's.

Check the local nursery? Our local nursery carries wine grape plants.

Also try the local wineries. Around here, there are about 70 smaller wineries within an hour drive. Many are helpful with info.

V&E-Wine And Grapes

From the University of California extension office, and home of El Dorado County Master Gardeners

El Dorado County Wine Grape Growing - El Dorado County

 

[Jimmyp5]

I would recommend that before you start you get two books Vineyard Simple by Tom Powers and From Vines to Wines by Jeff Cox, great starting points.

Lot of information on the Web, University of Oregon has some great info on it site. Also it too late for this year but I just received my cutting from USDA Geneva, they are free and a great place to get cuttings to learn from.

I got 12 different cutting this year so I can start a building my own library of gapes and learn all the rooting methods and grafting before deciding on final products in my vineyard.

Don't for get this is a long term project, you will not see "good" end product until the 4th years, sometimes the third.

Geneva has it all, I got some table grapes, Thompson 5, Niagara Seedless, to put in the wifes garden area long the fence. For me a few Reislings and some Rkaziteli and other reds to to root and graft on too my mustang vines.

Drop me a PM if you want more info.

Jim

 

[SpringHollow]

Can't help but have a sad story. Just bought a hydraulic post driver from a guy who is retiring his vineyard. Some of the vines were put in over 100 years ago by his great grandfather. It has been organically grown grapes for the last 45 years. He gets 175% of the going market price because his grapes are so good. The winery even puts his name on the bottles bragging about his grapes. The wine from his grapes wins them gold medals in contests in California. He has cut all ofthe vines back to the main trunk and will be ripping them out. When i asked why not lease it out (we have lots of vineyards here), he said his land is too steep for the mechanized equipment the large places use (says you can not get top quality grapes that way - have to hand select/prune each cane (?)) and the profit margins are too small for someone to run the place that does not live there. He spends all winter hand pruning along with several employees. Then he pulled out a plastic jug and said he was just testing some wine from 2006 and would we like some. By far the best red wine I have ever had, made from a mix of 3 different grapes. Just enough sweetness to take the edge off. When i asked where to buy it, he says he only makes 15 gallons a year for his own use. What a shame! Still not convinced he could not have leased it but I assume he knows what he is talking about.

Ken

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Can't help but have a sad story. Just bought a hydraulic post driver from a guy who is retiring his vineyard. Some of the vines were put in over 100 years ago by his great grandfather. It has been organically grown grapes for the last 45 years. He gets 175% of the going market price because his grapes are so good. The winery even puts his name on the bottles bragging about his grapes. The wine from his grapes wins them gold medals in contests in California. He has cut all ofthe vines back to the main trunk and will be ripping them out. When i asked why not lease it out (we have lots of vineyards here), he said his land is too steep for the mechanized equipment the large places use (says you can not get top quality grapes that way - have to hand select/prune each cane (?)) and the profit margins are too small for someone to run the place that does not live there. He spends all winter hand pruning along with several employees. Then he pulled out a plastic jug and said he was just testing some wine from 2006 and would we like some. By far the best red wine I have ever had, made from a mix of 3 different grapes. Just enough sweetness to take the edge off. When i asked where to buy it, he says he only makes 15 gallons a year for his own use. What a shame! Still not convinced he could not have leased it but I assume he knows what he is talking about.

Ken

Do they do a lot of mechanical pruning over your way? There is not a lot of desire to use mechanical pruners here unless there is a labor shortage like last year. I know of one farm who has ruined their vineyard (100 acres or so) as they use the mechanical purner every year. The vines look like very thick bushes running along with wire

Almost everyone has the Mexicans trim for them around here. The Mexicans are amazing workers and do a great job. What is more amazing is they are honest and I have never heard of any farmer having problems with a Mexican worker. Without them there would be a lot of farms hurting for labor.

There are some wine varieties that you need to hand harvest to get a great wine. Other varieties you can use mechanical harvesters. But every vineyard is different and has different practices.

I do not grow any wine varieties but might soon as I am friends with a large press owner who sells juices all over the US. And we are finishing building another friends winery. He has been a great help to us with our vineyard as have all our vineyard owning friends. So far I have only met one vineyard owner who was an idiot. Most are happy to help.

So for the OP, if you have any vineyards in your area talk to them and run your idea across them for input. They will be able to help you with specific questions about your area.

 

[charlz]

Here is a source for some cuttings:

Varieties

I ordered some table grape cuttings and planted them last year. He also seems to have a pretty good selection of wine grapes.

Of course where I am at: 'one in ten winters will be cold enough to freeze grapes back to the ground' .... it is kinda looking like this is that winter Might be replanting next year.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Here is a great guy to deal with. His name is Denis Rak and he grew up on the farm I just bought. His father passed away and wanted me to buy his farm so after he passed his one son approached me about it and that is my new home now. Denis has been great helping me get the place back in order. He is also the one who gave me 300 apple and cherry trees.

Give him a hollar or check out his site and hopefully you will learn something you want to know.

Double A Vineyards - Sales of Grapevines, Vine Supplies, Fruit Trees, Rhubarb and Berry Bushes - Fredonia, NY 14063

 

[czechsonofagun]

Thanks for all the info guys. Yes, I am familiar with vine growing, I have quite few relatives in Moravia, the wine growing region of the Czech Republic. They have a saying: if the wine grower says he has nothing to do, he is lying. It is amazing, how much work and time they spent in their vineyards, but I am ready for that; I just figured it would suit me, the process of maintaining and growing year after year.

I will check with our coop and extension office and follow their regional recommendations. That should be easy an easy enough start- but of course, to make God laugh tell Him your plans

 

[forgeblast]

Hi I dont want to start a vineyard but I do want to properly trellis the two grape vines i have coming in. I may down the road take cuttings and root them to make more. Is there a trellis system that you recommend over the other, or have a supplier link to trellis parts.

Are there any grape varietys that like very damp soil?
(I have an area on my property that is damp from a sometimes creek (sometimes it has water sometimes it doesnt). The water drains down to my neighbors pond. But it leaves the area damp.

Thank you for your time,
appreciate it.

 

[Jimmyp5]

Hi I dont want to start a vineyard but I do want to properly trellis the two grape vines i have coming in. I may down the road take cuttings and root them to make more. Is there a trellis system that you recommend over the other, or have a supplier link to trellis parts.

Are there any grape varietys that like very damp soil?
(I have an area on my property that is damp from a sometimes creek (sometimes it has water sometimes it doesnt). The water drains down to my neighbors pond. But it leaves the area damp.

Thank you for your time,
appreciate it.

Hi, grapes do not like wet feet they get rot fast. As for a Trellis, let me make a suggestion, if they are wild they will not take to normal pruning. They "wild vines" tend to like "hedging" works just like it sounds as you would a bush. If you just have two vines, why not build a simple arbor, you can go a cheep as 4 8' T-post, and some cattle pannels (etc...) wired and bent over to make a nice shelter in the summer. The vines love the panels, you can train the vines to make it look really cool and wife friendly. If you really want to trellis, go with a high wire system, less maintenance and easy to get to grapes, vines. I plan on doing this to some wild grape vines I am grafting with a table grape, that way folks can sit, pick, eat.

 

[forgeblast]

Thanks, the vines are not going to be wild ones, they are from millers nursery
ontario and hardy woden.
I was thinking of the arbor direction, with one variety on each side.

 

[Jimmyp5]

If you want to keep the wife happy., use landscape timbers, cow panels on the sides, get a piece of cheep lattice work and cut that into the half round top, wire it in and in a year you will see nothing but vines and grapes.

 

[forgeblast]

The cow panels, how much do they run. Would it be easier to just run some woven fencing that i have between a frame work of 4x4's with lattice on top?
Thanks,

 

[Jimmyp5]

The cow panels, how much do they run. Would it be easier to just run some woven fencing that i have between a frame work of 4x4's with lattice on top?
Thanks,

The standard 4 inch square will run you $19.95 at TSC...you might find them cheaper at a Ag Supply store. These are 4 ga and will hold up under the weight of the vines. If you go with woven fence, your going to play heck pruning them each winter. Vines like open space and normally grow on plain wire and can be trained to follow a track. Also you can get the panels to form a nice half arch just wire them with say a 8 inch overlap. At 4 ga they can stand up and attach directly to your vertical post (wire to t-post or screw to wood). The lattice idea was just to make the top half circle look nice. Franky, I would not do it myself and don't plan on it. I am going with large T-post the wild vines I want to graft to are out in the field away from view, so I am playing with them. I will have to lug water out to them, since I have not got the water line run out that far yet!!

Hope this helps.

Jim

 

[forgeblast]

i saw the 4'' square panel. That is the type of fencing i have. I used it around my 3 rail fence to keep our dogs in. I have also used it around my orchard (plus a top of stone wrap wire) to keep the deer out. When i get the hops in place that will be used there also.
I was thinking that a Anchored End Post System
with a Tie-back Post might be a bit too much for the area. I may go with the arbor idea. And let it become a grape trellis too.
http://viticulture.hort.iastate.edu/info/pdf/domototrellis.pdf
showed how to install a vineyard it had a lot of great info.
Thanks all
Forgeblast

 

[SpringHollow]

The wild grapes here love the wet clay i have - i assume they are wild - they grow all over. We have not had the grass burn out in 17 years and i never water. I am constantly going through my property cutting the vines because they kill the trees. Some are 3" or more in diameter. I must admit, they were particularly large, sweet, and good tasting this year. Surprisingly, most are still on the vine and uneaten by birds, bears, etc. Not sure why.

Ken

 

[czechsonofagun]

Although this first year is to establish root system and overall settle in, it gives me a great pleasure to watch some of the Cabernet Sauvignon (I got them 3 year old) push hard for grapes this year.

I would never believe how much I enjoy tinkering in the vineyard

And for anybody who wants to know more about wine growing and making, this is a book covering all the basis and still quite easy to read: Amazon.com: From Vines to Wines: The Complete Guide to Growing Grapes and Making Your Own Wine: Jeff Cox: Books

Also I am getting ready for the final product too - collecting bottles; it is a job for a real man