Starting problems

[jenpepper]

I am working on a John Deere 6300. The starter engauges but it is just a hum. The fan turns but r-e-a-l-l-y s-l-o-w-l-y. We had another problem with this same tractor that maybe related but not sure so I need your advice.

The other problem was with start up as well but you had to shake the steering wheel like crazy and hope the battery held out long enough for it to finally crank fast enough to start. It has been down for two weeks now and when I finally got a chance to make it to the field to look at it we ran into the first problem I mentioned. Please help......I am willing to try anything but, before I tried all the previous suggestions I wanted you to know both problems.

Also, it has a new fuel pump, the tank has been cleaned out (with clean diesel), new fuel lines to the fuel filter, new fuel filter and housing, and a new nutrual safety switch.

I appreciate all your help!!!
__________________

 

[steve08]

Ground and all Cable connections CLEAN? Once had a Pos. Cable so corroded under the insulation would not pull enough Amps to turn the Starter... Good Luck!

 

[beenthere]

On first thought, sounds like a battery problem. Don't have a clue why shaking the steering wheel like crazy changed the cranking speed (but Steve08's suggestion sounds like a good one).

 

[jenpepper]

Thanks for the ideas!!!

I have talked to 2 other people about the shaking thing and the responce I got was that the hydralic pump has a bypass valve and when it starts up the hydralic fluid immediatly starts flowing. If the bypass valve is not allowing any fluid to flow then the pump can't turn which doesn't allow the engine to turn easily if at all. Then today someone else said they thought that the JDs had a "closed"(?) hydralic system which doesn't work this way. What do you think?

 

[jenpepper]

Steve08, we tested the power at the starter and it was right on.....could it still be a cable prob? I ask because i would hate to peel it back and be wrong. Not that I would skin it completely.

I am a little over careful, times are hard & money tight...(just like everyone else)....can't really afford an opps on my end. This is why I am looking for the infinate wisdom of the forum...lol. Seriously, I appreciate all the imput and please don't be offended if I ask twice for clariffication....thats just me.

PS sorry for my bad spelling.....

 

[Willl]

How much voltage are you seeing at the starter ?

 

[jenpepper]

Right at 12V.

 

[LD1]

IMO it could be one of two things.

First, it could be an intermitten bad connection. As already mentioned, if you havent already, clean ALL connections. Shaking/turning the steeringwheel may be touching/bumping something that is causing it to all of the sudden make a good connection??? But cleaning all the connections isnt going to hurt anything, and it wont cost anything.

And if you have a DVOM that will read DC amps, check that as well while starting.

If everything with all that checks out okay, it sounds like something is acutally causing a load on the motor causing it to turn slow. I'd look into the powersteering hydraulics for sure. I am not familiar with your model, maybe others will chime in, but it just seems odd that turning the wheel will cause less resistance on the motor???

Again, I am not familiar with the 6300, but I would still think it has some sort of bypass on the PS pump. The pump HAS to build pressure somehow when you are turning and directing the fluid to the steering mechanism, but when you are not turning, the pump certainally isnt "dead heading". So something has to allow fluid to "bypass" back to tank. Whatever that is may not be operating properly???? I think the PS system deserves a looking at, but I could be way off base too

 

[jenpepper]

That is part of the frusteration....once it cranks there is no issue at all in the steering.....only on start up. OH, there is somthing else I forgot to mention about, where as before the steering wheel only turned from the 2 to 11 o'clock position befor it would start now it is really easy to turn all the way around while the key is on (not started).

The turning the steering wheel theroy frees up the hydrolic pressure......I am not sure either. The way it was explained made sence BUT, I am looking for that 2nd, 3rd, 4th...ect opinions.

 

[LD1]

That is part of the frusteration....once it cranks there is no issue at all in the steering.....only on start up. OH, there is somthing else I forgot to mention about, where as before the steering wheel only turned from the 2 to 11 o'clock position befor it would start now it is really easy to turn all the way around while the key is on (not started).

The turning the steering wheel theroy frees up the hydrolic pressure......I am not sure either. The way it was explained made sence BUT, I am looking for that 2nd, 3rd, 4th...ect opinions.

IF it has a bypass, and IF it is blocked, once the engine is running you would NOT have any problems with the steering.

What the relief would typically do is "unload" the pump when not steering. Making the pump spin easier until you NEED the pressure to steer. By steering while trying to start, you are using that PSI, and making the pump spin easier and in turn, letting the motor whirl over a little faster.

 

[kenstrac]

You have a unloader valve on the pump,when the key is in the start position it energizes the valve, when the key is released to run the valve is de energized.
Check the voltage at the valve in start should read 12+,you may want to try jumping the valve to see if you can hear it move in or out.
If moving the steering wheel has an effect you may have a loose wire in the dash that controls the valve.And yes yo do have a closed center hyd. system.

 

[true temper]

kenstrac has pretty well said it. JD had a kit available to de stroke the main hydraulic pump. One wire hooked to the S termenal on the starter and the other to ground. When you turn the wheel back and forth you are eleninating some of the hydraulic pressure. If your tractor does'nt have the solinoid kit installed you can manually de stroke the pump. To do this there is either a stem with a roll pin on top of the head of the pump, or the newer ones take a 1/2" wrench. to de stroke it screw it in all the way and start the tractor when running turn it back out and it will turn on the pump.

 

[jenpepper]

I am fixin to head to the feild, I will let ya'll know how it goes.....Thanks.

 

[First one]

May have nothing to do with your poblem ,but we have a 2040 JD that was having starter problems . It would crank up just fine most of the time . Other times it would crank over really slow ,sometimes just click on the starter. We replaced the battery with on help, then replaced the starter . Come to find out it was all in the ignition switch. After replacing the switch we haven't had any problems with it again so far. Could the switch have anything to do with your problem?

 

[steve08]

Steve08, we tested the power at the starter and it was right on.....could it still be a cable prob? I ask because i would hate to peel it back and be wrong. Not that I would skin it completely.

I am a little over careful, times are hard & money tight...(just like everyone else)....can't really afford an opps on my end. This is why I am looking for the infinate wisdom of the forum...lol. Seriously, I appreciate all the imput and please don't be offended if I ask twice for clariffication....thats just me.

PS sorry for my bad spelling.....

I chased a nonstart issue for two days, Getting correct Voltage every where!
Starter, Switch. Relays... Finely pulled the poz end off the Starter and ran a 'Jumper' from the Battery to the Starter....She Fired right up!
Poz Cable showed full 12 volt but would not pull enough Amps to turn Starter

 

[Jay4200]

Right at 12V.

Your battery is dead. A fully charged battery reads 12.6V. Jump it then replace the battery.

JayC

 

[jenpepper]

Thanks for all the suggestions....I will try them out, it is crazy how simple or unrelated some seem but I am not ruleing anything out at all.

 

[AlbionWood]

I feel ya bro... just went through a couple weeks of frustration with a similar prob - turned out to be poor connection at one battery terminal. The starter motor draws a lot of current, book says 300A for mine, so if there's any problem with the connection it won't get enough juice. Took a long time to track that down though; even with headlights on it wasn't showing any voltage drop at the connection, but it would fail when I tried the starter.