Starting Procedure

kuboman · Apr 28, 2010

Dirk Lately said:
Then why does my manual say to start at half throttle? Is Kubota practicing planned obsolescence? What you say sounds reasonable to me, but presumably Kubota knows what they're doing...

Although I know what my manual says to do, I find I can't start at such a high rev. It just seems too abrupt, or something. We've gotta ease into things, you know.

The manuals states what it does because when a diesel is cold it will sometimes smoke and fart around and many owners get upset with that so Kubota tells you to put it to 1/2 throttle to eliminate that commotion. Is it the best for the engine no, will it destroy your engine, no, not in the hours most owners will run there engines. All I know is if you fired up your diesel at -20 and ran it to half throttle you would get about 5 starts out of it before it did fail.

ibnxe · Apr 28, 2010

The wonderful thing about being human is that you can believe anything you want. It must be hard for some to understand why someone with an engineering degree would dare to suggest you should start your tractor at something approaching half throttle. Are they crazy??? No, they happen to know what they are talking about.

Here is a little perspective... As the engine fires off and reaches 1500RPM, the oil light is out within a second. This is only 25 revolutions of the crank. On a pressure lubricated engine, where does the oil go when it is squeezed through the bearings? It lubricates the cylinder walls, pistons, rings, wrist pins, cam lobes and lifters. If there were no splash lubrication, the engine would sieze in short order. If you could see inside the crankcase you would be amazed.

Start your tractor anyway you want to. It's your tractor.

Who am I to tell you what you should do? ASE certified master mechanic, race engine builder, winner of 6 regional championships and two national titles. Expert? no, my BX is my first diesel engine, but all engines are basicly the same.

kuboman · Apr 28, 2010

ibnxe said:
The wonderful thing about being human is that you can believe anything you want. It must be hard for some to understand why someone with an engineering degree would dare to suggest you should start your tractor at something approaching half throttle. Are they crazy??? No, they happen to know what they are talking about.

Here is a little perspective... As the engine fires off and reaches 1500RPM, the oil light is out within a second. This is only 25 revolutions of the crank. On a pressure lubricated engine, where does the oil go when it is squeezed through the bearings? It lubricates the cylinder walls, pistons, rings, wrist pins, cam lobes and lifters. If there were no splash lubrication, the engine would sieze in short order. If you could see inside the crankcase you would be amazed.

Start your tractor anyway you want to. It's your tractor.

Who am I to tell you what you should do? ASE certified master mechanic, race engine builder, winner of 6 regional championships and two national titles. Expert? no, my BX is my first diesel engine, but all engines are basicly the same.

Try forcing honey through a hole the size of a small finishing nail. That is what you are trying to do with 15W-40 oil at 0* F. Facts are facts and physics are still physics not matter what some engineer figured out.
Oh and try splashing your 0* honey. Ummm

Gale Hawkins · Apr 28, 2010

I agree if someone is starting an engine with 15W-40 oil at zero degrees the flow is going to be very slow but the filter should by-pass and some oil will get moving.

That is the reason we moved to 5W-40 year round.

ibnxe · Apr 28, 2010

Let's see... the viscosity of honey? The wild blackberry honey in the kitchen has a viscosity of about 200 at room temperature. I use 15W-40 oil, so at 0 degrees the viscosity is 15. So what is it you are trying to compare here?

Facts are facts and oil does flow quite nicely at 0 degrees. I would not recommend using honey in any engine.

kuboman · Apr 28, 2010

ibnxe said:
Let's see... the viscosity of honey? The wild blackberry honey in the kitchen has a viscosity of about 200 at room temperature. I use 15W-40 oil, so at 0 degrees the viscosity is 15. So what is it you are trying to compare here?

Facts are facts and oil does flow quite nicely at 0 degrees. I would not recommend using honey in any engine.

Try pouring your 15-40 a 0*F and then come and tell us all what you found.
Oh and honey was a figure of speech if you need that clarified:confused2:.

timswi · Apr 28, 2010

OK...Someone explain this...My RTV1100 has nearly the same 3cyl diesel that my BX has...When I start it, it goes to idle..The hand throttle adds a few RPM if needed, it sure doesn't sound like 1/2 throttle to me....Why wouldn't this have a fast idle to 50% of that's is what's needed/...Just sayin.

My diesel Suburban didn't have fast idle either. My guess it is the smoke that can be generated at low, cold RPMs,.That thing was old school, non turbo, injector pump only. Sold at 175K with no mechanical issues..Who knows.

I still start at idle and bump up a bit on the BX. Have never done anything differently. And probably won't.

After 6 years, it still runs like the day I bought it.

ibnxe · Apr 28, 2010

kuboman said:
Try pouring your 15-40 a 0*F and then come and tell us all what you found.
Oh and honey was a figure of speech if you need that clarified:confused2:.

Got a quart in the freezer and will give you the results later. Until then, I'm going to stand with the engineers, and start my tractor at half throttle.

TripleR · Apr 28, 2010

ibnxe said:
The wonderful thing about being human is that you can believe anything you want. It must be hard for some to understand why someone with an engineering degree would dare to suggest you should start your tractor at something approaching half throttle. Are they crazy??? No, they happen to know what they are talking about.

Here is a little perspective... As the engine fires off and reaches 1500RPM, the oil light is out within a second. This is only 25 revolutions of the crank. On a pressure lubricated engine, where does the oil go when it is squeezed through the bearings? It lubricates the cylinder walls, pistons, rings, wrist pins, cam lobes and lifters. If there were no splash lubrication, the engine would sieze in short order. If you could see inside the crankcase you would be amazed.

Start your tractor anyway you want to. It's your tractor.

Who am I to tell you what you should do? ASE certified master mechanic, race engine builder, winner of 6 regional championships and two national titles. Expert? no, my BX is my first diesel engine, but all engines are basicly the same.

Thanks for the information, but it kind of reminds me of one of my favorite philosophers and anticipated responses:"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!" --Homer Simpson

kuboman · Apr 28, 2010

ibnxe said:
Got a quart in the freezer and will give you the results later. Until then, I'm going to stand with the engineers, and start my tractor at half throttle.

Thats great, make sure it gets cold soaked, and it is 15-40. Then pour it through a small funnel.
Ya see I already know the answer to this one. I live in a country with 8 months of winter so this kind of research I did years ago.

638 · Apr 28, 2010

Mmmmm, I think starting at half throttle and warming up at half throttle are two different things. Starting at half throttle will dump more fuel into the cylinders for a quicker start, but I certainly would not warm up a cold engine at half throttle. Off idle, at the smooth sweet spot for my BX warm up.

Wacky · Apr 28, 2010

638 said:
Mmmmm, I think starting at half throttle and warming up at half throttle are two different things. Starting at half throttle will dump more fuel into the cylinders for a quicker start, but I certainly would not warm up a cold engine at half throttle.

Exactly how I was understanding this. Why would you run a diesel at half throttle to warm up? I could see half throttle upon initial ignition, but after that, cut it back to a "comfortable" idle. After all, they have a low top-end speed for a reason.:thumbsup:

David_Kb7uns · Apr 29, 2010

Here is something interesting. In my Dodge Cummins diesel, when started in cold weather it will idle a bit and then go up to high idle until it is warmed up. Why does it do that? It does it to build up heat ensuring complete combustion making the engine warm up quicker and be more efficient.
Unless a diesel engine is working and building heat you are going to get cylinder washdown and scoring after extended periods of low idle.
Kubota is a leading expert in small diesel engines and they know how to make them run good and last, I do not think they would mislead you.

David Kb7uns

poldies4 · Apr 29, 2010

So, the answer is definitive and clear now. Start at half throttle with the throttle lever in the idle position. From there idle to the sweet spot keeping the rpm's up while not exceeding 1300 or so. At which point do I click my heels, and is it spin to the right or left?

I really appreciate all of the info, and like a lot of questions, this one does not have a definitive answer. I guess the default would be to perhaps create a hybrid starting method. How's this sound....Start at half throttle, at start up idle back to the 1300 sweet spot. Warm up at that rpm. I know i'm making more of this than I need to, but it's made for a fun thread. Thanks for all the input!!!:thumbsup:

TripleR · Apr 29, 2010

poldies4 said:
So, the answer is definitive and clear now. Start at half throttle with the throttle lever in the idle position. From there idle to the sweet spot keeping the rpm's up while not exceeding 1300 or so. At which point do I click my heels, and is it spin to the right or left? I really appreciate all of the info, and like a lot of questions, this one does not have a definitive answer. I guess the default would be to perhaps create a hybrid starting method. How's this sound....Start at half throttle, at start up idle back to the 1300 sweet spot. Warm up at that rpm. I know i'm making more of this than I need to, but it's made for a fun thread. Thanks for all the input!!!:thumbsup:

I think in the end it is who has more credibility, an international company that designs and manufactures millions of diesel engines or someone who has owned a couple of tractors and/or a pickup and his "daddy" told him how it's done.

JOHNTHOMAS · Apr 29, 2010

TripleR said:
I think in the end it is who has more credibility, an international company that designs and manufactures millions of diesel engines or someone who has owned a couple of tractors and/or a pickup and his "daddy" told him how it's done.

Now you know how almost every one is going to go on that one, almost no contest.

And they are going to keep spending an extra $50 at that 50 hour transmission fluid change. If you love your machine you'll spend more money and prove it. I do have a bit of a nagging concern though of if in fact that is the logic, why don't they do it at 25 hours instead of the made up number of 50? A true lover will do it every 50 to 100 hours and maybe more often. Disclaimer: I start mine in idle and raise it to smooth, I do not go to half throttle of 1500 but smooth on mine is 1000 to 1200 so I guess I'm not to far off from company recommendation. And what do they know about it anyway, their dad's and granddads probably didn't even own a tractor.

ruralruss · Apr 29, 2010

The owners manual for my 3200 says the same half throttle startup procedure. It also says not to do the first change of the transmission fluid until 400 hours.

Russ

JOHNTHOMAS · Apr 29, 2010

Woah!! Those Kubota engineers and manual printers! I thought I was running mine at about 1000 to 1200 warm up. Just worked my BX2660 which starts at idle at 1400 and smooths out at 1450-1500 and my BX 25 starts at 1400 and smooths out at about 1450-1500. They don't seem to be running fast or loud at those rpms. I thought they were running around 1000 from sound and vibration or lack of sound or vibration. Could they possibly know what they are talking about??? I thought I remembered my other Botas starting at around 700-900 and smoothing out at around 1000-1200. Maybe the others did but not my one year old BX2660 and one month old BX25. Is it possible that things can change over time? Could there possibly be new methods for machines? Can't they just keep everything like it was in the 60"s, maybe 30's or even 70's so we can finally figure out that we've now learned how something is to be fixed, ran, operated so we can tell our Grandchildren how it is? Not!

TripleR · Apr 29, 2010

JOHNTHOMAS said:
Woah!! Those Kubota engineers and manual printers! I thought I was running mine at about 1000 to 1200 warm up. Just worked my BX2660 which starts at idle at 1400 and smooths out at 1450-1500 and my BX 25 starts at 1400 and smooths out at about 1450-1500. They don't seem to be running fast or loud at those rpms. I thought they were running around 1000 from sound and vibration or lack of sound or vibration. Could they possibly know what they are talking about??? I thought I remembered my other Botas starting at around 700-900 and smoothing out at around 1000-1200. Maybe the others did but not my one year old BX2660 and one month old BX25. Is it possible that things can change over time? Could there possibly be new methods for machines? Can't they just keep everything like it was in the 60"s, maybe 30's or even 70's so we can finally figure out that we've now learned how something is to be fixed, ran, operated so we can tell our Grandchildren how it is? Not!

The "feel" is pretty misleading on my 2660 and 5030 both. These things top out at a little over 3000, so half throttle or 1500 really isn't running it all that hard in my opinion. I really fail to see the reason for concern, but who knows.