Starting the workshop-need advice on a nailgun

[neilly2]

I wonder why many building departments won't allow them? Maybe there's something else wrong them.

Anyway, the point regarding the cookie cutters is that they will do anything to save the pennies. Cheaper nails, a few more nails per stick, lighter gauge nails.

A real craftsman wouldn't consider them. How bout the gauge on the clipped heads? Is it the same as the round head?

All this talk of nail guns--don't forget that neumatic nails are thinner gauge than common nails. You may have to put an extra nail in per connection to get the appropriate shear.

 

[crb478]

Cliped nails have less holding surface so some codes have made them illegal, especially for high wind areas. Typically they will hold up just fine, just not as well as a full round head nail will. They are also tougher to pull out since the heads easily deform and slip

 

[keeney]

RE:" A real craftsman wouldn't consider them. How bout the gauge on the clipped heads? Is it the same as the round head?"

A real businessman would not ignore any technology that allows them to build the same or similar quality more efficeintly, quicker, or at a lower price.

I would assume they are avilable in the same gauges. It would be a different quesiton to ask if the cookie-cutter framing guys use the heavier gauges???

Two advantages to clipped head nails:

1. There is a larger variety of clipped head nails available at the local lumberyards and they are priced better due to more competition.

2. When you run out of nails up high in the rafters of a two story house, you will wish you had more nails per stick and could fit more sticks in your apron.

- Rick

 

[Cliff_Johns]

Just bought a FR350A Porter Cable round head framing nailer from amazon (tool crib) for $219 minus a $25 Porter Cable promotion which they direct you toward.

I also got a couple packages of nails while I was at it, but that nailer for $194 is a pretty good deal on a very good nailer.

Cliff

Oh yes, Free shipping too.

 

[neilly2]

I'd invest in a spackle bucket and a rope. Or, a bigger pouch.

Who is to say that the real craftsman isn't a real businessman man as well, and did, in fact, investigate clipped head nails?

Your inference is that being a real craftsman and a real businessman are mutually exclusive. They are not. It would depend on the particular business model, and if the technology fit in with that model.

Production homebuilding, quite obviously, can be part of a successful and lucrative business model. However, custom home building can also be part of a successful business model.

In the realm of production framing speed rules and so does every penny. Therefore, the additional few nails per stick and few cents saved will show substantive return after many units, and allow the homes to be sold at a cheaper price. That cheaper $/sf is the marketing basis for these homes.

In the realm of custom home building (or personal projects) the speed gained or few pennies saved is not a smart move when customer referrals, impecable quality, and reputation are driving your business.

Regarding the technology-- the fact that the clipped head nail has less sinking resistance, the outside fibers of the wood are normally broken. It's extremely difficult to control the air strong enough to set the nail but weak enough to compensate for the half head. (often time cookie cutters will jack up the air so they don't have to worry about needing to set a nail head by hand). This negatively affects the holding power of the fastener. I guess it is a matter of opinion if this workmanlike or not.

Also, when it is hit or miss whether a municipality will allow the clipped heads or not, you need to have both types of guns. How does that additional capital and subsequent inventory control factor into the real businessman's plan?


Check out this article about quality control with pneumatic nails from Fine Homebuilding. They don't even consider clipped head nails.

http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/pages/h00090.asp

 

[keeney]

I agree that its not really worth the savings to use clipped nails for DIY'rs, but on the other hand, the slight decrease in pull-through force doesn't really worry me that much for nailing 2x lumber together, either.

Most of the concern with over-driving is when nailing thin sheathing materials that have to resist hurricane winds. If you put a nail 3/8" deep into 1/2" OSB, yes, its going to be a lot weaker!

Check out what one nail gun mfg has to say:

www.senco.com

Also a review of nailers (not sure how old):

www.gadgetsexpress.com

- Rick

 

[Banjo]

I bought a Bostich coil nailer when we started the cottage reno in 2000. I've used it a lot, and it does the job. I guy who built a big barn for some friends near here, said he costed it out and the coil nails were cheaper than hand nails (because they were thinner). That wasn't including the "installation" cost. However, because it's so easy, you tend to use more nails with the gun, so I wouldn't take it to the bank automatically! Mine came with two heads, so I don't have the bounce one on. One area where the air nailer really helps is toe nailing.

You do need to be careful though, I didn't feel the nail go into my hand /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif, but did feel it when they pulled it out /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. It was a momentary lapse of being very careful nailing a double top plate on at a corner. Nailer slipped enough so that the nail only caught the edge of the board. My hand was a long way down, but still in the "line of fire". Luckily it only just caught the edge of my palm so didn't do any real damage. I'm **even more** careful now, but wouldn't stop using one.

When I started putting up the T&G pine inside, I was hand nailing (got some bad advice). Got a PorterCable 16 guage nailer after a couple of days and it's saved me days! It's nice to use. Plus with the air nails, you really realize how many you put in. Two big boxes now! A friend of mine actually used his to tack the strapping up in his new shop, and then came back and nailed it "properly" with my coil nailer.

Also have cheap Cambell Hausfield 18g and stapler. They're handy and now have got even cheaper.

If you're doing any significant building, I would also recommend getting a palm nailer. They're very handy, and once you've used one, you'll like it! They seem to have got much cheaper lately too.

All in all, the air nailers are a big equalizer. Now you don't have to be able to swing a huge framing hammer to build.

HTH, sorry about the length. Andrew

 

[kevincook]

I have a Bostitch Framing Nailer and also a Finish Nailer. I'm not a professional so I don't use them everyday but I have been very pleased with their performance over the past 10 years.

That being said. For homeowner use especially, I would purchase a cordless Paslode nailer. Amazon

I'm sure you have corded and cordless drills at home. Which one do you reach for 9 out of 10 times? For me, I only reach for the corded drill when I know I'll be burning through batteries too quickly for the cordless to make sense. The one thing I hate about the Bostitch nailers is having to drag the compressor around with me to the jobsite.

Either way, there all much better than a hammer /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Kevin

 

[MikePA]

<font color="blue"> the slight decrease in pull-through force doesn't really worry me that much for nailing 2x lumber together, either. </font>
Just a thought...how much additional pull through strength do FH nails really provide over CH?

I ask this question because just this week I was building a short section of wall out of 2" x 4"s using my Porter Cable FH framing nailer. A couple of nails didn't go all the way in and instead of hammering them in, I decided to pull them out.

Ever try and pull a pneumatically driven, coated nail out? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I pulled the head off the nail. So, if the nail is in the wood so secure that the head pulls off before the nail comes out, does the head make that much difference? Thoughts, anyone?

 

[Adirondaks]

I have a Stanley-Bostich framer that I used to buid a deck. It is as good as any brand name, what I liked about it was the changable trigger that was included. It can be set up to must pull the trigger every time or hold the trigger and hit the nose to fire. Both ways have their advantages.