STEINER 430 MAX, Samurai Sickle Mower Experiment is a BUST!

[Industrial Toys]

Let me start by saying that manufacturer suggesting this Samurai sickle mower can cut 1-1/2" branches is like saying a VW Passat can mow down 4" Hardwood. It's NOT a LIE! It's possible with GREAT DAMAGE!

I have always wanted to try this on the 430 MAX, that has little hydraulic power to spare.





First step was to see if Steiner would even move the sickle. Borrowed lines off a snowblower, to avoid much investment in this experiment. Machine required full RPM to get close to good sickle speed. Not the mowers fault, but unfortunate.



Tried on some weeds with poor results. Knives had been damaged from attempting to cut branches much smaller than advertised. Found some knives bent, making for poor scissor action. Dismantled sickle and straightened some knives.



Went to Pond, which is where this configuration would have been ideal.



The mower really needs a way to angle the sickle. Had this worked out, I would build a special carrier with an electric actuator for angle adjustment.

BIGGEST issue, is that the sickle gets choked by heavy, typical pond side vegetation. Probably not helped by damaged knives, but I don't think this is the whole problem.
It cuts maybe 5% of the vegetation and flattens the rest, making another kick at the can unlikely.

I would have LOVED for this to work.

Does anyone else have experience with this mower?



END of Experiment. FINISHED WITH ENGINES!

 

[johara1]

Do you have enough flow and pressure with the hydraulic to run the motor on the sickle bar? Maybe try it on an other tractor, sounds like not enough flow....jim

 

[LouNY]

A sickle bar can be a fickle critter,
that samuri wasn't built for flat grass mowing that raised reinforcement behind the sickle will collect grass and plug.
Also it looks like your angle on the sickle bar was nose down it should have bee just slightly nose up.
A sickle bar works completely on shearing action the finer the material the more critical the shearing action,
the knives and guards must be in contact with the hold down bars keeping everything snug so as to be shearing,
other wise it's like trying to cut paper with scissors if loose they will not cut.

 

[pmsmechanic]

You need guards for the blades to cut against. No mower that I've seen cut grass uses blade against blade. The guard holds the grass/etc. so that the blade can cut it.

 

[LouNY]

The guard also has a knife insert usually serrated, some of the new ones actually run what amounts two bars and they both move.
The guard is what has to sit snug to the knife sections on the sickle to be able to shear.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Very interesting information guys. Thanks. But I kind of have to digest what you said to exactly understand it.

The Steiner is sadly lacking in any flow or pressure. But, the guy that makes the sickle said, the blades should not go faster than you can see them. If they are a blurr, they are going to fast. The Steiner at full RPM seems to achieve enough speed by that criteria. It does STALL when really heavily loaded though.



I did buy it for my loader. I see it more as a hedge trimmer and it does trim back soft Cedar branches quite well.

I would have liked to use the STEINER as I don't like driving larger equipment at ponds edge.

 

[Joe Malovich]

If you use the steiner loader you could plumb the mower bar into the loaders hydraulic system. The only problem is that system is limited to 750psi and only a few GPM, I think it comes out to 3.5hp of hydraulic power which might be enough for a sickle bar mower. You could install a higher GPM pump on the loader to get some more power out of it, assuming the motor on your bar is a good match in GPM. This is just what I suspect, I don't have any firsthand experience in this case.

 

[LouNY]

Very interesting information guys. Thanks. But I kind of have to digest what you said to exactly understand it.

The Steiner is sadly lacking in any flow or pressure. But, the guy that makes the sickle said, the blades should not go faster than you can see them. If they are a blurr, they are going to fast. The Steiner at full RPM seems to achieve enough speed by that criteria. It does STALL when really heavily loaded though.

View attachment 666689

I did buy it for my loader. I see it more as a hedge trimmer and it does trim back soft Cedar branches quite well.

I would have liked to use the STEINER as I don't like driving larger equipment at ponds edge.

Interesting when I enlarged your picture I can see that they didn't use the finger type guards,
it looks like they have bolted on sickle sections for lowers and then the sickle sections on the bar.
I couldn't see haw many hold downs they have.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I dodn't know bugger all about sickle mowers. There are two bars with the 2" section bolted to them with countersunk allen screws and nylock nuts on top. One of the bars moves via the motor.

I thought of looking for a busted Steiner hbroom with aux hydraulic pump, but if this thing doesn't cut dense brush, not much point.

 

[johara1]

I think you will find that Ventrac makes a sickle bar mower and it has it's own pump and tank. It is driven off the belt on the front. the hydraulic on Steiner and Ventrac is not suitable to run hydraulic motors just enough to work cylinders.....

so either put it on a tractor that has enough power and flow to work the cycle bar or build pump and tank set up to mount the sickle bar on and run it off the PTO of the Steiner.......... jim

 

[Industrial Toys]

It still wouldn't address the issue of not cutting heavy vetetation.

I wish an honest person that has one, could share their experiences.

 

[johara1]

I guess I'm not honest then, the reason I didn't get one I had to build a pump assembly to run it. If you ever get the chance to see the old one for a ventrac it had a single knife and cut against a series of guards and was very similar to one used on a farm and the hydraulic would run it. what you have has two knives and cuts against each other and takes a lot more power to run. .... jim

 

[Industrial Toys]

Not what I meant. Seems some people could never get themselves to report any negative aspect about what they own.

I paid a fair bit for this and feel a bit dupped. I don't need to protect any pride to say that.


I don't recall any sickle being anything other than basically flat. Only the vegetation to go beween the knives and get sheared. Not sure about any other guard. I will have to find a sickle mower and look at it for comparison.

 

[johara1]

Not what I meant. Seems some people could never get themselves to report any negative aspect about what they own.

I paid a fair bit for this and feel a bit dupped. I don't need to protect any pride to say that.


I don't recall any sickle being anything other than basically flat. Only the vegetation to go beween the knives and get sheared. Not sure about any other guard. I will have to find a sickle mower and look at it for comparison.

No the ones that have a belt drive instead of a pitman will cut in any position. Now you can go small like the old Hayban they used on garden tractors they worked great as low as 12 hp and run off a belt and used single knife and fixed guards.... jim

 

[MossRoad]

What is your Steiner's hydraulic GPM and pressure rated for?

 

[johara1]

MR I think the pressure is 1500 on the Ventrac and 1750 on the Steiner and the GPM is very low they use 1/4" hoses..... and will not run a Hyd. motor..... Steiner does run a separate belt driven put though..... Both are anemic ..... jim

 

[MossRoad]

MR I think the pressure is 1500 on the Ventrac and 1750 on the Steiner and the GPM is very low they use 1/4" hoses..... and will not run a Hyd. motor..... Steiner does run a separate belt driven put though..... Both are anemic ..... jim

Yes, I believe you. There's several engines listed for the 430, the diesel being the lowest HP. Can't find any specs on them and I was curious as to the actual numbers.

 

[johara1]

You put that on a PT.425 it would run it great, it's pump is made to run hyd. motors and hoses large enough to have adequate flow...... jim

 

[johara1]

I did find it requires 3.3 GPM at a pressure of 200lb....... jim

 

[Industrial Toys]

Someone once told me that I could up the pressure on the Steiner 430 MAX a bit. It will barely lift the deck. I really don't like to max things out. It is what it is. You can insist on all kinds of power and features, and it will be the newer VENTRAC and STEINER models. Not the small, little footprint machine that I have. Chicken FARMS are complaining that they can't lift the newer machines onto to second floor with a loader as easily anymore.