STEINER 440

[eddieb1965]

Looks like the new model 440 has alot of the features I want.Wonder what kind of price is on the 4 different engine options for the 440?Anybody else know any particulars? Eddie

 

[eddieb1965]

Their website doesnt even have anything about it...

 

[JohnnyDB]

Saw and drove it at my local dealers open house. One step forward, two steps back IMO, I was not that impressed, or at least not enough for me to buy one of those over a Ventrac. Seems like they are just trying to catch up to Ventrac. A few nice features here and there, but some interesting engineering choices that are questionable, time will tell.

As far as pricing, the salesman there said the 25hp Kubota Diesel was $21,000 base price. I think the lowest price was $18,400 for the smaller Air-cooled unit.

Just my opinion, which doesn't mean much :laughing:

 

[eddieb1965]

There goes me owning one.Most all manufactures think, along with a new model should come a wopping new price.I think the new model is long over due,but the price will be a killer.I also think that in todays economy you need to broaden your marketshare,this wont help in the least.Steiner has already eliminated the entry level 415,now the entry level model will be the 430?I hope all the best for Steiner Turf Products,but looks like I will be keeping my Utilimax for a long time.....

 

[eburwell]

I think I would rather have a 430 over the 440.

Article on the new 440
Steiner Model 440 Articulating Tractor - Green Industry Pros

 

[stevem5215]

One of the new features is a foot controlled forward and reverse mechanism. It's about time they did that instead of the hand mounted one. This would be a lot better instead of having to use your hand on the accessory functions for the lift and angle changes.
And they don't mention anyone in the homeowner market buying these but people with "large acreage" is mentioned. And I agree that it can replace all those machines mentioned. I would hope that it can lift more with the loader though as that limitation isn't so good IMO on the current machines.
The pictures make it look longer. I'd like to see one in person to judge that for myself. I do like the idea of 40hp under the hood with larger more powerful drive motors/axles too.

Steve

 

[Raw Dodge]

Its better looking than the 430,however they have priced themselves too high IMO...In this economy they needed to come in a little lower....and while the diesel may be more powerful than the 430s,that isnt saying much,as the 430s only had 15HP at the most even though they had a 21hp label,it was way optimistic,its still too small and lacks the displacement and torque needed.They needed to have the d1105 kubota in it,that would have put the machine at 28hp and 50+ft lbs of torque...perfect for running a 72" deck or heavy work.So once again the diesel will be the one to avoid. I am excited about the heavier axles and dual pumps,these are things I would have loved to have on my 420s...especially as the hours get up there,the pump loosens up and it really would be beneficial to have higher GPM,and duals....a single pump was never enough...The air cooled "40" Kohler (really a 33-35) should be a good performer....

 

[JohnnyDB]

The pictures make it look longer. I'd like to see one in person to judge that for myself.

I don't know the dimensions but it was quite a bit longer/larger than the 430. (see below)

You may be happy about that foot lever in theory. May be ok on long flat ground, but I would never take that thing on a slope or in tight areas that is an accident waiting to happen.

@Raw Dodge
I agree on engine, but I believe they were limited on Diesel engines due to EPA regulations and that will be for anyone in this hp range, but you probably know more about it than I do :laughing:.
I was also told that they are using the same axles that Ventrac currently uses and designed years ago. So it should be a good axle, but then again it seems like they are playing catchup/copycat.

After digging a little I found some information on a dealers site.
Steiner - 440-40KO

So same axle that Ventrac designed (Peerless 2600).
430 is 64" the 440 is 86" with the same width 22" increase in length, wow.
So they definitely made it longer and quite a bit taller, with the same width.

 

[Raw Dodge]

The 22" increase in length will be welcome,the 420/430 was very tippy with the front end loader or 60/72" deck trying to go downhill and lift the deck for obstructions...i just hope it isnt at the expense of agility because thats one area the 420/430 really shined,they were good in tight spaces,and for getting around trees,especially the older 420s ,before they pulled oil from the rear diff,they steered really tight,the newer 420s had a hard oil pickup line running from the main pump to the rear axle in the way,it limited how tight they turned.I have 1 of each,the old one is a much better trim mower...As for the diesel, i think what it comes down too is space for the engine,with the way they set the engines backwards on the steiners and ventracs the cooling system is right behind the operator controls,and the pto drive needs to be where it is...I tried fitting my kubota d1105 in my ventrac..its 4" too long,simply wont fit without moving radiator rearward or losing cooling fan,neither which are possible...the 31 Briggs Diahatsu gas or diesel is a very compact engine,only 15" long,which is probably why they are the only LC engines in use in them....The Steiners have the same amount of room,so nothing bigger than the 950 will fit in the new tractor...the 430 only could get the d721 in there...not even close to big enough.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I agree with Raw Dodge about the 430 Diesel. A real disappointment for me, who had dreamed of owning one for years.

I spoke with Steiner. Yes, they addressed most of my issues with the 430 in the design of the 440. Yes, it has a bigger footprint which is unfortunate. I just managed to get my 430 into the back of my short box, three quarter ton. It rides up there rather proudly!

And yes, the price is a killer! Especially since that's only the start, with the attachments threatening to put you in the poor house and the search for used attachments (affordable) in the nut house!

It's really sad, because we desperately need jobs, and yet if something like that was built off-shore, I can't help but think that it would be more affordable.

 

[Propliner]

At my workplace we sell Steiner and Ventrac. We got in our first 440 on May 22. This one has the 32hp. Kubota Liquid cooled gas engine. Now, I would definatly say it is beter than the 430, but over a Ventrac it is still hard for me to choose. The 440 only has a foot pledel option (although there is a hand-control option coming), I have to say I do like it. The controls for lift and aux are now like a Ventrac, on the right hand tool box. The unit is only a half inch wider, but a lot longer, and of course there are some minuses there. But it does turn tighter than the 430, so that helps. The gas tank is no longer under the seat, but is the left hand fender. On the right hand fender, the tool box is shallower, and the lower half hinges out to service the battery and hydralics. The hydralic pump and the head lights are somewhere around 50% more efficient than the 430. the attachment latch has been simplified with a hand lever instead of the push lever that dug into your hand with the spring loaded mechanism. the hydralic hook ups are also right at the front of the tractor so the hoses don't have to be run through anything.

I really can't wait to get it dirty. It mowes with a 6ft. deck with incredible ease over our big hills here. Weight distribution, which was a big issue with other units, has been over come with this tractor. You don't need any weights for the 6ft. deck! It really is pretty nice.

The only bad things are the foot pedel which takes a little getting used to. Also the steering wheel hits my knees when the unit is turned and osilating at a certain angle, but I am tall. And of course, the price. The 32 gas that we have is the highest priced model, at $21,900. The 25hp. Kubota Diesel is about $300 less, and the 34 and 40hp. Kohler air cooled uints are lower than that, but I haven't seen the exact price.

I would say if you have a dealer close by, go try one out! But remember if you get hooked, you might be a little in debt for awhile. Hope this helps you guys!

 

[TIM jordan]

Looks like the new model 440 has alot of the features I want.Wonder what kind of price is on the 4 different engine options for the 440?Anybody else know any particulars? Eddie

The 32hp Kubota gas List $21,900.00, 25hp kubota diesel $21,000.00, 34hp air cooled $18,300.00 and the 40hp air cooled $18,800.00. Those are the list prices. We have retailed 4 units and have great results. The 17 gallons per minute with the new hydrolic system lets the engine do it's job and doesn't starve the pumps and motors.

 

[TIM jordan]

The 22" increase in length will be welcome,the 420/430 was very tippy with the front end loader or 60/72" deck trying to go downhill and lift the deck for obstructions...i just hope it isnt at the expense of agility because thats one area the 420/430 really shined,they were good in tight spaces,and for getting around trees,especially the older 420s ,before they pulled oil from the rear diff,they steered really tight,the newer 420s had a hard oil pickup line running from the main pump to the rear axle in the way,it limited how tight they turned.I have 1 of each,the old one is a much better trim mower...As for the diesel, i think what it comes down too is space for the engine,with the way they set the engines backwards on the steiners and ventracs the cooling system is right behind the operator controls,and the pto drive needs to be where it is...I tried fitting my kubota d1105 in my ventrac..its 4" too long,simply wont fit without moving radiator rearward or losing cooling fan,neither which are possible...the 31 Briggs Diahatsu gas or diesel is a very compact engine,only 15" long,which is probably why they are the only LC engines in use in them....The Steiners have the same amount of room,so nothing bigger than the 950 will fit in the new tractor...the 430 only could get the d721 in there...not even close to big enough.

The 3Lc engines the are in the Ventrac tractors right now will not meet emissions for 2013, so they will have the same hp/cc problem with there new engines!

 

[TIM jordan]

I don't know the dimensions but it was quite a bit longer/larger than the 430. (see below)

You may be happy about that foot lever in theory. May be ok on long flat ground, but I would never take that thing on a slope or in tight areas that is an accident waiting to happen.

@Raw Dodge
I agree on engine, but I believe they were limited on Diesel engines due to EPA regulations and that will be for anyone in this hp range, but you probably know more about it than I do :laughing:.
I was also told that they are using the same axles that Ventrac currently uses and designed years ago. So it should be a good axle, but then again it seems like they are playing catchup/copycat.

After digging a little I found some information on a dealers site.
Steiner - 440-40KO

So same axle that Ventrac designed (Peerless 2600).
430 is 64" the 440 is 86" with the same width 22" increase in length, wow.
So they definitely made it longer and quite a bit taller, with the same width.

Tire to tire the 440 is only 5" longer and has a tighter turning radius than the 430.

 

[Raw Dodge]

The 3Lc engines the are in the Ventrac tractors right now will not meet emissions for 2013, so they will have the same hp/cc problem with there new engines!

I heard Kubota gas and diesels were being tested in the Ventracs...but its just what i heard thru reliable sources I cannot mention here... I am glad they wont meet emissions,since the gas version is gone,parts are hard to find and expensive,and most importantly the diesels are complete garbage especially compared to the Kubota and Yanmar small diesels.There are no good engine options left for 4200 ventracs,its sad dropping to the Ventrac 3000 series gets you the Briggs D850 which for whatever reason is stone reliable and a great engine.So a Ventrac 4200,a few inches longer opens up possibilites for larger,more powerful gas and diesel engines,with the room to adequetley cool them,and additional room for a potentially larger or dual hydro pump setup....which is what they really need to be perfect.

 

[Raw Dodge]

Tire to tire the 440 is only 5" longer and has a tighter turning radius than the 430.

The 430 didnt turn tight enough,so thats not saying alot. The older 420s,with the front axle hydro oil pickups turned tight,thats the target Id like to see met...If I had known that the later 420s and 430s had lost so much turning radius,Id never bought one,Id waitied for a used older 420,they are that much better,especially for mowing.

 

[TIM jordan]

The 430 didnt turn tight enough,so thats not saying alot. The older 420s,with the front axle hydro oil pickups turned tight,thats the target Id like to see met...If I had known that the later 420s and 430s had lost so much turning radius,Id never bought one,Id waitied for a used older 420,they are that much better,especially for mowing.

They made a kit to make the turning radius tighter for the 430's but people would leave it like that and then try to run it with dual wheels.

 

[thumper144]

They made a kit to make the turning radius tighter for the 430's but people would leave it like that and then try to run it with dual wheels.

Never knew about the kit to make the 430 turn tighter...are you talking about the 3 holes in the frame that you could reconnect the hydraulic steering cylinder to in order to make it turn tighter?

I would hope it is not a optional accessory kit, steiner and ventrac both like to charge for anything they can. My first steiner410 the dealer charged me an extra $2100 for the air in the tires!:laughing: He said it was a must have accessory. :laughing:

hopefully the 440 does well...a new steiner or ventrac would be nice.

 

[Raw Dodge]

They made a kit to make the turning radius tighter for the 430's but people would leave it like that and then try to run it with dual wheels.

My later 420 was limited by the metal hydraulic suction hose for the pump.Turning any tighter would have the cylinder hit that line.I wanted to make it turn like my old 420,as none of my operators wanted to use the newer machine,between that and the way Steiner plumbed the hydros on the 97s,to go to the front axle first,the machine didnt have nearly the traction the old one did.No one would use it unless the other one was down or I forced them too.The newer 420s and 430s pulled oil from the rear axle,instead of the front like older 420s and ventracs.

 

[thumper144]

My later 420 was limited by the metal hydraulic suction hose for the pump.Turning any tighter would have the cylinder hit that line.I wanted to make it turn like my old 420,as none of my operators wanted to use the newer machine,between that and the way Steiner plumbed the hydros on the 97s,to go to the front axle first,the machine didnt have nearly the traction the old one did.No one would use it unless the other one was down or I forced them too.The newer 420s and 430s pulled oil from the rear axle,instead of the front like older 420s and ventracs.

What made the traction worse...not sure i follow?
Also, why did they go from a machine that pulled fluid from the rear axle? wondering what their thinking was?