Step up from CK20

[Slackdaddy]

My CK20S runs fine and does most of what I want, but lacks in a few areas.
I am "thinking" about looking at alternatives.

I like the CK20 size, but know I will have to go slightly larger to get the "perfect" tractor,, but want to stay as small as I can.
But the things I NEED to upgrade are:

1) FEL lift capacity- The CK20 is 1100# at the pins,, I would like around 1300 at the pins
2) 3 range transmission,, the 2 speed ranges of the CK20 is everyones gripe. (I would consider a manual with shuttle)
3) Backhoe attachment that shares the tractor's operator seat. The CK20 has the fuel tank behind the operators seat, so the BH need
it's own seat. This arraignment puts the whole BH attachment rearwards and additional 2' or more, adding excessive length to the overall setup.

Additional things I want:
A full frame like the Yanmar SA424 series.
Any way to avoid tier 4 engine ??


So what exist that meet my Needs and possibly wants?

 

[rScotty]

I've got a recommendation but need a little more info. New or used? What kind of work & land?
I notice you don't mention PTO or 3pt. capability. Are you planning to leave the backhoe on it all the time?
I believe you can still avoid tier 4 by staying under 25 hp. With a 3 speed HST that should be enough.

 

[Slackdaddy]

I've got a recommendation but need a little more info. New or used? What kind of work & land?
I notice you don't mention PTO or 3pt. capability. Are you planning to leave the backhoe on it all the time?
I believe you can still avoid tier 4 by staying under 25 hp. With a 3 speed HST that should be enough.

Used would be fine.
My property is 20 acres of my home/homestead, oak forest, creek bottom.
I use the tractor to cut and process firewood, this is where it struggles - lifting IBC totes of firewood.
I have a PTO tiller and post hole digger,, fences, garden, food plots , lawn restoration.
Pallet forks for moving various materials (always have a project or 2 going on.
FEL is used for general homestead work.
Backhoe is not used much, but when I need it, I need it. And renting one/picking up/returning it for an hours worth of digging will not work for me.

Yeah 24.9 HP with a 3 speed HST would work, as would a manual with hydro shuttle.

 

[rScotty]

Used would be fine.
My property is 20 acres of my home/homestead, oak forest, creek bottom.
I use the tractor to cut and process firewood, this is where it struggles - lifting IBC totes of firewood.
I have a PTO tiller and post hole digger,, fences, garden, food plots , lawn restoration.
Pallet forks for moving various materials (always have a project or 2 going on.
FEL is used for general homestead work.
Backhoe is not used much, but when I need it, I need it. And renting one/picking up/returning it for an hours worth of digging will not work for me.

Yeah 24.9 HP with a 3 speed HST would work, as would a manual with hydro shuttle.

OK.. then I'd recommened that you get a Kubota B26 or L39 TLB. They are made from the get-go to have a loader and hoe. That makes them more convenient to use for loader and hoe. Try one and you'll see. Twice as rugged and way heavier built than tractors of similar HP. Either one can use the thumb to hold a log up for chainsawing. The 4 post canopy is nice and heavy.

Downside is new ones are expensive - about 50% more than tractors that size. Heavy too. But the B26 has been around since 2007 and is the same model today. 3 speed HST. The L39 is a shuttle. (my favorite).
Kubota built the L39 up until about 2015?
That's where I'd look - I'd look for a ten or fifteen year old B26 or L39 with under 1500 hrs on it.
Sweethearts for close powerful work.

rScotty

 

[tacticalturnip]

Might I recommend the Kioti CK2610 outfitted to your tastes?

 

[Slackdaddy]

OK.. then I'd recommened that you get a Kubota B26 or L39 TLB. They are made from the get-go to have a loader and hoe. That makes them more convenient to use for loader and hoe. Try one and you'll see. Twice as rugged and way heavier built than tractors of similar HP. Either one can use the thumb to hold a log up for chainsawing. The 4 post canopy is nice and heavy.

Downside is new ones are expensive - about 50% more than tractors that size. Heavy too. But the B26 has been around since 2007 and is the same model today. 3 speed HST. The L39 is a shuttle. (my favorite).
Kubota built the L39 up until about 2015?
That's where I'd look - I'd look for a ten or fifteen year old B26 or L39 with under 1500 hrs on it.
Sweethearts for close powerful work.

rScotty

The L39 is to much tractor in all aspects, Size, weight, capacity, price.
The B26 seams to fall right in most aspects,, wonder if you can remove the canopy and just run it with RPOS?

The Kioti CK20 is a good match quality and price for my use,, I put 360 hrs in 10 years, I will be putting more hours, maybe 10-20% more per year. Definitely not looking to step up to Kubota construction/rental line of machines.

I like the CK20,, I just need about 200# more lift out of the FEL and a 3rd speed range,, But is I spend good money on another tractor,, I want the BH better thought out,, The CK20's BH hanging into the next county gets on my nerves.

 

[Slackdaddy]

Might I recommend the Kioti CK2610 outfitted to your tastes?

View attachment 791064

Looks ideal,, except the BH.

 

[rScotty]

The L39 is to much tractor in all aspects, Size, weight, capacity, price.
The B26 seams to fall right in most aspects,, wonder if you can remove the canopy and just run it with RPOS?

The Kioti CK20 is a good match quality and price for my use,, I put 360 hrs in 10 years, I will be putting more hours, maybe 10-20% more per year. Definitely not looking to step up to Kubota construction/rental line of machines.

I like the CK20,, I just need about 200# more lift out of the FEL and a 3rd speed range,, But is I spend good money on another tractor,, I want the BH better thought out,, The CK20's BH hanging into the next county gets on my nerves.

Yes, the B26 are awesome. I'm not suggesting that you go get one, you've got an excellent machine already. But given what you've said you want to do, I would just put a B26 on my "permanent look list" in case one comes up. It may not. But if you could buy one right then they sure do maintain value.

Using what you have with some improvements... is that an option? If so, there isn't much that can be done with the transmission other than perhaps changing to a lower profile tire front and rear which would lower the overall final ratio a bit. I found that going to industrials/turfs helped us with that on our old tractor. But for us that required getting lucky to find a set of used wide turf wheels & tires a dealer had in the back of his shop.

The FEL lift is easy - at worst a few hundred bucks. First check the pressure you have at full lift. A hydraulic gauge and adapters can stay inline and only costs maybe $45. It may be that all you have to do is raise the psi to get 200 lbs more lift. A couple of us here can help with the math. But you have to check the relief valve pressure before we do.

Alternatively, you can also get more FEL lift with a very slightly larger diameter set of boom cylinders. That means finding some with the proper ends - but most loaders use a universal type. There are several surplus hydraulic suppliers online.
It takes very little increase in diameter to cause the total piston area to go up your required 20 %, and lift force follows that ratio 1:1.

Not sure about the backhoe seat versus the fuel tank. Most small tractors have a backhoe seat that seems too far back to me. I know the problem. In fact, that is the main reason I went from a tractor with backhoe attachment to a Kubota TLB. The tractor+hoe worked. But the dedicated Kubota TLB is great.
And nobody else makes one. I wish that several other companies did. They all could.

So that's 1 or 2 possible improvements out of 3 requests... Keep your eye out for a 15 year old B26.
rScotty

 

[Slackdaddy]

Yes, the B26 are awesome. I'm not suggesting that you go get one, you've got an excellent machine already. But given what you've said you want to do, I would just put a B26 on my "permanent look list" in case one comes up. It may not. But if you could buy one right then they sure do maintain value.

Using what you have with some improvements... is that an option? If so, there isn't much that can be done with the transmission other than perhaps changing to a lower profile tire front and rear which would lower the overall final ratio a bit. I found that going to industrials/turfs helped us with that on our old tractor. But for us that required getting lucky to find a set of used wide turf wheels & tires a dealer had in the back of his shop.

The FEL lift is easy - at worst a few hundred bucks. First check the pressure you have at full lift. A hydraulic gauge and adapters can stay inline and only costs maybe $45. It may be that all you have to do is raise the psi to get 200 lbs more lift. A couple of us here can help with the math. But you have to check the relief valve pressure before we do.

Alternatively, you can also get more FEL lift with a very slightly larger diameter set of boom cylinders. That means finding some with the proper ends - but most loaders use a universal type. There are several surplus hydraulic suppliers online.
It takes very little increase in diameter to cause the total piston area to go up your required 20 %, and lift force follows that ratio 1:1.

Not sure about the backhoe seat versus the fuel tank. Most small tractors have a backhoe seat that seems too far back to me. I know the problem. In fact, that is the main reason I went from a tractor with backhoe attachment to a Kubota TLB. The tractor+hoe worked. But the dedicated Kubota TLB is great.
And nobody else makes one. I wish that several other companies did. They all could.

So that's 1 or 2 possible improvements out of 3 requests... Keep your eye out for a 15 year old B26.
rScotty

The FEL capacity is the biggest and what prodded me to even think about replacing the CK20.
If I had 200# more lift at the pins, I would be "OK",, 300# more and I would be golden (I typ have the 5' tiller on the rear, and have loaded rears)

The 3 speed ranges and a better thought out BH setup are things I would WANT if I was spending 20K on a new setup. But those 2 things are not enough to make me get rid of the otherwise great little CK20 (If I increased the FEL lift)

But in the end, I paid 11.5K (2008) for the new CK20S with FEL, loaded rears, welded on bucket hooks and pallet forks (Walace Tractor), and it only has 360 hours on it, so not liking the idea of going into debt.

 

[Sid Post]

What are you picking up with the FEL that can't be with a 3-pt mounted carrier?

 

[tacticalturnip]

Pride and efficiency?

 

[ericm979]

An IBC tote full of medium density hardwood is in the 1800-2200 lb range, plus the weight of the tote (~100 lbs) and forks (~350 lbs). A tote is a little over 1/3 cord in volume.

My Branson 3725 which weighs 5800 lbs with loader and loaded rear tires and has a factory rated 2200 lb loader at full height can pick them up and move them but you sure know there's something heavy up front. I would not want to do it with a tractor that's significantly smaller and lighter.

I think you need to look at bigger tractors for moving totes full of firewood.

 

[rScotty]

The FEL capacity is the biggest and what prodded me to even think about replacing the CK20.
If I had 200# more lift at the pins, I would be "OK",, 300# more and I would be golden (I typ have the 5' tiller on the rear, and have loaded rears)

Check the system pressure. There may be a couple hundred pounds of lift ability just sitting there ready to be used....or not.

 

[Sid Post]

Something to keep in mind with adding capacity with the lift arms of your loader, whether new cylinders or more hydraulic pressure, is tractor stability! A few people die each year in tractor roll-overs lifting too much weight and trying to move it on a tractor that is not properly balanced and stable.

I know it's sacrilege on forums like this and, especially over on the Kubota forum, but my Kubota L-4600 is a terrible choice for heavy lifts of tree limbs, firewood, etc. in my pasture. The front axle is not really rated for the loader capacity so, I am only one hidden bump in the grass from overstressing and possibly breaking it. It also lacks stability with insufficient weight in the back, though the OP's backhoe should solve that issue. My tractor is also relatively narrow compared to its height so, general tractor stability is not what I recommend for a novice. The Center of Gravity is relatively high and the loader, even empty, in an open pasture when up high is a bit of an effort tempting fate with a rollover. And yes, I have had to save it once slamming the loader to the ground to get it back on 4-tires before a roll-over when material shifted.

In my case, I am seriously looking at replacing it with a TYM option because they are 12 inches wider and have more steel in the rear axle and other drive components and frame. The loaders are also uprated and don't stick out so far resulting in less "leverage" with a load lifted but, dumping the bucket into something will be a bit more challenging since it won't have as much reach or over hang.

 

[ericm979]

Something to keep in mind with adding capacity with the lift arms of your loader, whether new cylinders or more hydraulic pressure, is tractor stability!

Yep. Lifting 2500 lbs of tote + firewood + forks with a 2500 lb tractor is going to create an ill-handling combination.

the loader, even empty, in an open pasture when up high is a bit of an effort tempting fate with a rollover. And yes, I have had to save it once slamming the loader to the ground to get it back on 4-tires before a roll-over when material shifted.

I never drive the tractor with the loader up high to look under it. I keep it as low as it will go without hitting anything or stuff dragging on the ground too much. If I'm raising it to dump stuff on a pile I do that as I am approaching the pile, on ground that's familiar and level or close to it.

It means that I often need to look around stuff that I'm carrying, but that's a skill that comes with practice.

 

[Slackdaddy]

An IBC tote full of medium density hardwood is in the 1800-2200 lb range, plus the weight of the tote (~100 lbs) and forks (~350 lbs). A tote is a little over 1/3 cord in volume.

My Branson 3725 which weighs 5800 lbs with loader and loaded rear tires and has a factory rated 2200 lb loader at full height can pick them up and move them but you sure know there's something heavy up front. I would not want to do it with a tractor that's significantly smaller and lighter.

I think you need to look at bigger tractors for moving totes full of firewood.

I should have given details,
I cut the totes down, about 1/2 - 2/3 height, My pallet folks are rated for 1600# and weigh about 50#.
I typ only need to get the tote about 6-12" up to move it around,, I'm not stacking them up.
Currently my stock CK20 can get one of my cut down totes just off the ground when it is about 3/4 full.

I sold my Case 580E 15 years ago,, It was just way to big after I finished the house.
At the time, The next size up from the CK20 was the CK30/35,, they only got me an additional ~75# FEL capacity, so I went with the CK20. The offerings by Kubota and JD in my price range and small frame, they only lifted ~750-800#

 

[Slackdaddy]

Something to keep in mind with adding capacity with the lift arms of your loader, whether new cylinders or more hydraulic pressure, is tractor stability! A few people die each year in tractor roll-overs lifting too much weight and trying to move it on a tractor that is not properly balanced and stable.

I know it's sacrilege on forums like this and, especially over on the Kubota forum, but my Kubota L-4600 is a terrible choice for heavy lifts of tree limbs, firewood, etc. in my pasture. The front axle is not really rated for the loader capacity so, I am only one hidden bump in the grass from overstressing and possibly breaking it. It also lacks stability with insufficient weight in the back, though the OP's backhoe should solve that issue. My tractor is also relatively narrow compared to its height so, general tractor stability is not what I recommend for a novice. The Center of Gravity is relatively high and the loader, even empty, in an open pasture when up high is a bit of an effort tempting fate with a rollover. And yes, I have had to save it once slamming the loader to the ground to get it back on 4-tires before a roll-over when material shifted.

In my case, I am seriously looking at replacing it with a TYM option because they are 12 inches wider and have more steel in the rear axle and other drive components and frame. The loaders are also uprated and don't stick out so far resulting in less "leverage" with a load lifted but, dumping the bucket into something will be a bit more challenging since it won't have as much reach or over hang.

I have no intention of the tractor moving with my 1/2 totes more than 1 foot off the ground.

 

[woolyAcres]

Years ago I bought a 3PT -> Skid Steer adaptor that fits on the 3PT but allows me to attach my pallet forks. I probably paid $200 for it but it lets me pickup and move 300gal totes full with firewood and move them around. I do that with my Bobcat CT2025. I think I can lift them about 15-18" so loading onto any kind of trailer could be difficult but for moving them from the woods to house it's no problem.