"Stepped up enforcement" of seat belt law

woodenhorse · May 29, 2003

Re: \"Stepped up enforcement\" of seat belt law

Hiya Harry,

>Having been involved in an accident myself and discussing with other people accidents, this is a (pardon the word) a crock. In an accident you do -not- have time to "jump to the other side...". It happens so fast that physics outruns reaction every time. If you had time to jump over, you also had time to avoid the accident to begin with. I have heard these anecdotes over and over, they are IMO all false. I have been in LE as dispatcher and other capacities for pushing 20 years. Of all the fatal accidents in almost every one it is someone not wearing a belt who is killed.
Yes there are cases where non-belted persons survive a probably fatality but there are also cases where people have gone out of high buildings and survived. Do you care to try that?

---Hate to bust your bubble Harry, but it is no crock, it is the truth......road was wet, couldn't avoid it, she kept speeding into me, I jumped. I've been on motorcycles and jumped too. So, let's see....I survived (no belt), both my parents survived (no belts), my sister died (wore a belt)....your stats don't reflect what was real in my family. Nice to know you were in law enforcement Harry, doesn't make you an expert though. Oh, by the way Harry, I was also in law enforcment for 12 years - but then I'm no expert either, just passing on what actually has happened and what I have experienced.....experiences differ, opinions differ, truth is truth.

What about those instances where deaths occur from wearing belts and because of wearing belts, but are conveniently shoved under the table and not statistically studied? Like one lady in a nearby town who was hit in the drivers side, the impact on her door jammed her seat, she couldn't get to her belt release, the car caught fire, she burned alive?

woodenhorse · May 29, 2003

Re: \"Stepped up enforcement\" of seat belt law

One more thing Harry,

>I have been in LE as dispatcher and other capacities for pushing 20 years.

---In my sister's accident, the tow truck driver stole her personal belongings from her car. The investigating officer took the pearl necklace off her neck and later gave it to his girlfriend. I flew in from DC, found out and went and retrieved the belongings from the tow truck guy and eventually retrieved the necklace and had the officer appropriately reprimanded. Unfortunately, had I not been working in the FBI at the time, I might not have been able to successfully see justice done.....so, in line with your question, and given the actions of the law enforcment officer at the scene, are all cops the same? If not, why would all accidents be the same?

MikePA · May 29, 2003

Re: \"Stepped up enforcement\" of seat belt law

As Damon Runyon said,

"The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet."

And so it is with seat belt usage. Are there examples of situations where wearing a seat belt made things worse? Sure. Do the slow win races, and the weak win battles? Yep, but is that the way to bet? Sometimes (all the time?) it's the job of the government to do the most good for the most people.

CSAW · May 29, 2003

Re: \"Stepped up enforcement\" of seat belt law

I don't believe much in statistics. They usually conclude whatever the ones behind the study want them to. I used to own a small wrecker service. For some reason when I would pick up a wreck where the people were not hurt they would many times get in the truck with me and say "the cop asked me if I was wearing a seat belt and I told him I was but I wasn't". This happened all the time. I guess they were feeling guilty for lying and had to tell someone. These all go into the statistics book as someone who did not get hurt BECAUSE he was wearing a seat belt. If you tell the cop you were not wearing it he would give you a ticket.

That's like our manatee law here in Florida. If you hit a manatee with your boat you are supposed to report it and wait there for the marine patrol to come. So he can fine you. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Yeh I'll do that. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Laws seem to punish people for doing the right thing. Therefore people do not report these things and the law defeats its purpose cause many of these manatees go unattended.

I do wear my seat belt, but, it is because I feel safer. I don't believe that I should be told to though because it only affects me. We would probably be safer if we all had roll cages, fuel cells, five point harnesses, fire suits and wore helmets in cars. Sure hope no politician gets and ideas from that.

Gary_in_Indiana · May 29, 2003

Re: \"Stepped up enforcement\" of seat belt law

 We would probably be safer if we all had roll cages, fuel cells, five point harnesses, fire suits and wore helmets in cars 

Don't forget the Hahn's device. Remember Dale Earnhardt...

SteveBenson · Jun 1, 2003

Re: \"Stepped up enforcement\" of seat belt law

>Sometimes (all the time?) it's the job of the government to do the most good for the most people.

I agree 100%!

How about using our resources to take care of the thieves, druggies, prostitutes, wife beaters, child abusers, murderers, sexual predators first.

When that's done we can then look at tax evaders and other white collar criminals, mail fraud, etc..

And when that's done, then we can worry about busting the hard working Joe for not wearing his stupid seatbelt /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

frank_f15 · Jun 1, 2003

Re: \"Stepped up enforcement\" of seat belt law

did anybody know that in some statesor locales that the police only need to wear their seat belts if they choose to? i think in a lot of cases the stepped up enforcement of the seat belt law is strictly a money making prop. here the fine is $50 , $25 to the state $25 to the town. i know all the reasons why the police say they don't want to wear the seat belts, but the law is the law right? i am not a police basher, as my son is a police officer and that is one tough underappreciated job.

SteveBenson · Jun 1, 2003

Re: \"Stepped up enforcement\" of seat belt law

>but the law is the law right?

I'm not sure. I heard that state troopers in our state are allowed to travel 10 miles over the speed limit all the time.

My theory is that the seatbelt checks are really pushed by the insurance companies. Let's see, we (the taxpayers) are paying the police to work for the insurance companies and give us fines, and then the insurance companies raise our rates when they find about the "offense".

What really blows my mind is the people who don't really see what's going on here and embrace the "law" without question. Whether you believe in seatbelt use or not is not really the issue. The issue is do you really want your insurance company dictating the way you live. I bet nobody can take the fun out of life quicker /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anonymous Poster · Jun 2, 2003

Re: \"Stepped up enforcement\" of seat belt law

Sure the seatbelt laws CAN be used as a revenue generators, especially for small towns. In many cases due to the budget crunch, this might be part of the reason we are seing more enforcement. It is happeneing in my town, in fact I got pulled over on Friday morning for just that reason and it is annoying. It is also an easy way for the boss to get the "numbers' up, as far as summons production.

The insurance company conspiracy theory is far fetched at best. You heard this from who? Does anyone really think the insurance companies reached out to the 10's of thousands of fed, state, town, village, enforcement agencies and used some nefarious means to get the police chiefs to order the troops to give seatbelt summonses so that they could then raise the rates?

How long do you think it would be before one of these police bosses went to the press and the insurance companies were exposed?

Now someone else will read your post and I can already hear them saying "I read online that the insurance companies make the police give seatbelt summonses so they can raise the rates" This expert will have gleaned this secret inside information from......drumroll please..... a tractor forum.

For a moment I thought this was the Art Bell forum.

Not suggesting this is what persons on this board are referring to but this is another scenario-
MANY times when someone says the got a seatbelt summons the real scenario is that they were speeding or breaking another vehicle law and the officer gave them the lessor summons-no seatbelt. You get a smaller fine and he still writes a summons. I have had all too many stories begin like this " **** cop gave me a seatbelt summons" after some digging they turn into this"well I WAS going 75 in a 55 and the cop said he was going to give me break, so he gave me the seatbelt summons"

Poeple often have selective memories.

Not great but it happens. Bosses want more summonses so cops write the LEAST expensive summonses possible, seatbelts, taillights, etc.

P.S. I am retired, and had horrible summons activity so don't get mad at me! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

MikePA · Jun 2, 2003

Re: \"Stepped up enforcement\" of seat belt law

 My theory is that the seatbelt checks are really pushed by the insurance companies. 
I thought it was the tri-lateralists who were doing this. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 What really blows my mind is the people who don't really see what's going on here and embrace the "law" without question. 
Do you mean if people do not agree that these laws '...are really pushed by the insurance companies.' '...then they 'really don't see what's going on...'?