Stopping weeds in the "garden" -- Preen?

   / Stopping weeds in the "garden" -- Preen? #21  
Thanks to all for such a civil discussion. Yes, opinions vary, and so do cirumstances. I for one appreciate the straight forward discussion, and the admission of an over step here or there. Rare these days, quite rare indeed.
 
   / Stopping weeds in the "garden" -- Preen? #22  
I have had p[retty good luck using the middle of the road black weed fabric. Laying it down the cutting slits over the holes like mentioned. This year i bought a round hay bale and laid the hay out to block the sun between the rows, this has worked to date with 99% effectiveness. I started my garden sometime in may, and could not get hay for a week or two and actually put it over the crabgrass and bermuda and it shaded it out and killed it.

-Nate
 

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   / Stopping weeds in the "garden" -- Preen? #23  
I have had p[retty good luck using the middle of the road black weed fabric. Laying it down the cutting slits over the holes like mentioned. This year i bought a round hay bale and laid the hay out to block the sun between the rows, this has worked to date with 99% effectiveness. I started my garden sometime in may, and could not get hay for a week or two and actually put it over the crabgrass and bermuda and it shaded it out and killed it.

-Nate
I hate to be the one to mention it :), but you may regret that hay bale next year. They're FULL of seeds.

What do you use to hold the fabric down along the edges? I used dirt, but that dirt just grew weeds. I also have weeds (thistles) growing under the fabric and pushing it up. I know they'll die eventually, but it's aggravating.
 
   / Stopping weeds in the "garden" -- Preen? #24  
I have had p[retty good luck using the middle of the road black weed fabric. Laying it down the cutting slits over the holes like mentioned. This year i bought a round hay bale and laid the hay out to block the sun between the rows, this has worked to date with 99% effectiveness. -Nate

Good looking garden there clemson' Those beans look ready to pick. What are the ?white? gourd like items?

I certainly may try your hay idea this year.
 
   / Stopping weeds in the "garden" -- Preen? #25  
Well is seems like a universal problem, VEGGI GARDEN WEEDS. I am an amateur and don't grow anywhere near the amount that BP or others do here. So a couple of questions.

BP, what does the organic community do to supplement the soil without adding outside seeds each year? I assume you also don't add fertilizer or lime to be organic certified. I live in an area with terrible soil, Ga. red clay, and have actively tried for the past five years to add good stuff whenever I could get it. Of course that brought a new crop of seed each year. I do till year round when the garden is free.

MMagis, and those that use herbicides. What about pre-emergences? I was always afraid of how they would affect the vegetables. Are you saying that will work to eliminate grass type vegetation and not harm vegetables? I did use a weed blocking cloth on my tomatoes this year and it has worked well so far. They have always been a pain to weed through the cages. We have a friend that grows ornamental flowers for wedding and such plus some vegetables. She grows on 2 acres and uses a weed cloth on all of it. She is a legit business and finds the cloth cheaper than keeping a crew to weed full time.

How many use herbicides on there garden? I have used some round-up on a limited basis.

MarkV
 
   / Stopping weeds in the "garden" -- Preen? #26  
I should clarify, I don’t have any experience with pre-emergent herbicides. I know there are some things available that would probably work, but I don’t know much about how they work. For the most part, I hand pull and use the tiller. The fabric is a new addition this year for me. It’s helping, but not as much as I would have liked. I have used gly in my small corn garden, but that’s about the only herbicide I’ve used in the gardens.
 
   / Stopping weeds in the "garden" -- Preen? #27  
Well is seems like a universal problem, VEGGI GARDEN WEEDS. I am an amateur and don't grow anywhere near the amount that BP or others do here. So a couple of questions.

BP, what does the organic community do to supplement the soil without adding outside seeds each year? I assume you also don't add fertilizer or lime to be organic certified. I live in an area with terrible soil, Ga. red clay, and have actively tried for the past five years to add good stuff whenever I could get it. Of course that brought a new crop of seed each year. I do till year round when the garden is free.


MarkV

Mark,

Sometimes, I am too passionate about this.:)
I studied, in reading and in field interview and observation work for two or three years before beginning my organic venture. I grew up on a "truck farm" in the 50s and 60s. Massive undertaking. But given the age period, it was a free-for-all chemically. I continued to garden until moving onto our property last year, when I desired to go full blown again, but full organic. Step by step. It doesn't happen over night. Lots of stuff I used to know, I must now re-learn, because this is different. There is both a financial and a passion interest for me in these matters. Just adding leaves, grass clippings etc, without hot, hot, hot composting is a recipe for weed introduction. I did this last year and have paid for my mistake. One's compost pile material is made using local resources to the person. I have leaves, pine needles, wood chips and most importantly, chicken manure at my disposal. That's about all I have, and I have to make it work, as does every gardener. No two situations are the same.

Bottom line? There isn't a quick and simple formula. It is a complex mix of variables that is large part science and good part art. I find it most challenging and most rewarding in every way, financially, mentally and physically. I am genuinely concerned about Genetically Altered seeds for virtually the sole purpose of being able to use Round Up type chemicals from Monsanto and others. I find that very disconcerting. Another topic, another day. :D I prefer the term "sustainable" to organic, as it better describes the goals in my mind.



Twelve Steps Toward Ecological Weed Management in Organic Vegetables - eXtension

This is another article on weed control management without resorting to just grabbing the chemicals, which over the long haul, will defeat your gardening by eventually, over time, destroying your sustainability. Pesticides are worse because they kill everything. If it kills bad bugs, it harms good ones too and enough of it, over time, is likely to harm us as well.

Lime is a natural product and perfectly acceptable and used with great gusto by organic farmers. I couldn't function without it. I'm small potatoes compared the big boys in Iowa, Kentucky and other places.
 
   / Stopping weeds in the "garden" -- Preen? #29  
Thanks BP, I enjoyed the link you provided. Wish I had access to chicken manure. We have a lot of chicken houses here in N. Georgia but the hay farmers are standing in line for the stuff. I haven't been able to find a good source. Collecting yard clippings, leaves and pine straw (I have a lot) just becomes an overwhelming task to create enough compost for my 50' x 50' garden. Hard for me to imagine how you do it for 8 acres. Maybe I am just too old. I like the term "sustainable", that is what I would like.

MMargis, I may have understood. I thought you were using a pre-emergent. My bad. I would like to know if anyone does that though. Personally I would like to stay natural but just can't handle what it takes with all that is on my plate. I like to shoot for BP term "sustainable garden" if there is an easier way.

MarkV
 
   / Stopping weeds in the "garden" -- Preen? #30  
I hate to be the one to mention it :), but you may regret that hay bale next year. They're FULL of seeds.

What do you use to hold the fabric down along the edges? I used dirt, but that dirt just grew weeds. I also have weeds (thistles) growing under the fabric and pushing it up. I know they'll die eventually, but it's aggravating.

Ok so i will have weeds next year, heck i had weeds before i laid the hay. This is the first time a garden was planted here. I tilled green grass under two weeks or so before planting. About 5-7 days before planting i sprayed some of the sprouts with glyphosate (cant get them all). then planted. Grass next year, no problem the fresh hay will stop them, i will till this used hay under once or twice after the season.

My point is that i will have grass next year without the hay, i would have had grass this year without the hay as well.

If tilling in dosent look like its working i will just rake it into a pile and burn it the gardens not that big.

The fabric is held down with those purchased metal stakes, i plan on pulling it up and reusing it next year. About half of it is reused from last year and it sat out all winter. I plan on pulling it up though at the end of the season this year though.

The gourd looking things are butternut squash.

The far right half of the garden is overrun with vines, but they are pumpkins watermellon cateloups and the butternut squash.
 

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