Storm scare....I need some thoughts/opinions

   / Storm scare....I need some thoughts/opinions #21  
I have a grd rod at the meter, one at the tv tower, one at the well, one for the shed elec box and have not had a problem.
 
   / Storm scare....I need some thoughts/opinions #22  
I posted this a few years back about what happens when a neutral goes "open". Hopefully this diagram will help people visualize what goes on.

For purposes of clarification, we'll leave the earth ground out of the picture. Once the neutral opens, the first load when turned on won't work and every load on that same hot leg will also not work. As soon as a load on the other hot leg is turned on, you have created and completed a series circuit. As you turn on more and more individual loads, you create a complex series and parallel load situation so again for purposes of clarification lets consider just two loads, one on each hot leg. The thing is, with a series connection, the current flowing through every load is exactly the same. Has to be.

As you see in the example, with a load on each hotleg, the open neutral suddenly places those two loads in series. What we want to calculate is the voltage potential (voltage drop) across each load. Another given is, the total of all the voltage drops across all the loads adds up to the total applied voltage. Has to be. In an open neutral situation, that would be 240 volts.

Volts (voltage drop) equals amps times resistance. Again, for purposes of clarification lets assume the resistance of each load remains the same with respect to what it was in a normal situation, (in real life it may or may not but for our purposes here, it doesn't matter) Going back to our power equation, you can calculate the voltage drop across each load. In a normal situation, each load sees only that current flow allowed by the resistance of the individual loads, and the voltage remains constant. In an open neutral situation, the current flow through every load is the same and the individual voltage drops across each load are what fluctuates.

As you can see, the loads with the higher resistance are the ones that see the higher voltage drop across them and vice versa. This also means that if both loads have exactly the same resistance, everything will appear to be normal. It also means that as more and more loads with different resistances are turned on, the voltage drop across every one of them will change, but the total of all of them must still add up to the applied voltage - 240 volts - but each individual load sees a different voltage drop across it.

1099596162_4.jpg

Thanks, you did a great job explaining it. And I'll add that in an open neutral, provider-side situation, the consumer's neutral becomes hot relative to true earth ground. Scary stuff especially after tree limbs and such hit the entrance line. There may appear to be no damage, but the neutral connection could be compromised and needs to be tested by qualified personnel.
 
   / Storm scare....I need some thoughts/opinions #23  
   / Storm scare....I need some thoughts/opinions #24  
We can discuss it, if you're game:) My understanding is the reference is invoked when setting up a grounding electrode system. Which means the rebar must be bonded to a suitable ground source prior to pouring the concrete. I think it is a good idea and is illustrated here: Grounding vs Bonding - Part 6 of 12 | Bonding & Grounding content from Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine

Other than having to be a minimum of 20' long and greater than 1/2" in diameter all that's required is being encased in greater than 2" of concrete. There's specific requirement for the concrete/earth contact and placement of the rebar in the concrete but I don't see anywhere where it says the rebar is required to be "bonded to a suitable ground source prior to pouring the concrete". I have read where if you have a metal underground water pipe, a concrete encased electrode (typically re-bar), and structural steel that qualifies as a grounding electrode (properly connected to earth), they shall be bonded together to form the grounding electrode system. This makes sense as you do want all grounds to be at the same potential in regards to earth and each other.(http://www.inspectionbureau.com/pdf/Grounding Electrode Systems '11.pdf)
 
   / Storm scare....I need some thoughts/opinions #25  
If I ever pour another slab I'll bond it. The thing is here we have periods of drought so severe that the concrete actually separates from contact with the earth. The poster said the concrete contractor left a rebar exposed and he tied into that. So his connection is not concrete encased. I'm old school and 250-A (3) is an addendum. I would love to get Megger readings on those grounds in say- 10-15 years- if I live that long. Hey, BTW, did you ever get a new TV?:)
 
   / Storm scare....I need some thoughts/opinions #26  
Separate your phone ground from your electric meter ground.Phone companies attach to your electric meter ground to save $$.We got hit 3 times by lighting 1 year.I separated the phone ground driving a separate 6ft ground rod.Never been struck since.
 
   / Storm scare....I need some thoughts/opinions #27  
Separate your phone ground from your electric meter ground.Phone companies attach to your electric meter ground to save $$.We got hit 3 times by lighting 1 year.I separated the phone ground driving a 6ft ground rod.Never been struck since.

Actually, phone companies do that by law (NEC). All utilities grounds should be bonded at the service entrance. It is possible that the phone company did not properly bond to the electrical ground in which case yes your ground rod will perform better than what they did. Still needs to be bonded to prevent difference in potential and protect phone co. personnel.
 
   / Storm scare....I need some thoughts/opinions #28  
Actually, phone companies do that by law (NEC). All utilities grounds should be bonded at the service entrance. It is possible that the phone company did not properly bond to the electrical ground in which case yes your ground rod will perform better than what they did. Still needs to be bonded to prevent difference in potential and protect phone co. personnel.
I am a retired electric lineman(37 years) so yes I understand the bonding issue.
 
   / Storm scare....I need some thoughts/opinions #29  
Grounding to the MGN is NEC code.
One of the problems with separate ground rods is Ground Rise Potential. Some very scary reading if you Google it.
GRP makes a "regular" lightning strike look like a little spark in a dark room.

Phil
 
   / Storm scare....I need some thoughts/opinions #30  
Got it. When stuff on both sides of the 240 is turned on, they become exposed to 240 through the neutral connection.
 

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