Student Loan Debt?

[Hay Dude]

I have never had a 50-70 year old show up to do plumbing, electrical, or HVAC work. Always young guys 20-40s or a young guy working with an older guy. The work pays well.

We have few, if any young guys working with their hands in my area. It‘s mostly order people extending their careers, because company owners can’t find any new people!

 

[Hay Dude]

I am a very simple man. Several of you are quoting government statistics. Lord knows they would never put out false or misleading information.

I am in Florida which is growing by leaps and bounds. I have a hot shot trucking business. Therefore I watch the load boards. I only watch the loads picking up and dropping in the state. Under the T man there were 3 to 7000 loads posted every day. This week there were 1000 or less loads posted on the load board. This low number has been posted everyday for months. The decline of the number of trucking companies and the decline in the freight rates is an indicator of bad things are coming.

The decline in loads has occurred while the help wanted signs are being pulled down. The construction continues but it has slowed down.

My observation is we are in for a rough ride as a country. If the economy is slowing down in one of the fastest growing states what is happening in the rust belt and dying areas.

I’d rather talk to an experienced, long haul Trucker about the economy than a Harvard Economics professor. I know I would get more useable information and insights into the economic situation.

 

[ultrarunner]

I've been fortunate to be around some very talented people... individuals that have become plant superintendents and charge nurses and even Director of Nursing without college degrees.

Military has had some outstanding leaders with high school... riding to the rank of general... not much talk of student debt.

The brightest and best learned on the job... they focused on getting the job done and in later years would spend a lot off time educating the university boys the way things work in the real world...

Maybe the best of both is on the job with degrees later?... see that with CNA and LVN nurses that complete their BSN coming in with clinicals down pat.

 

[2manyrocks]

You can look at this a lot of different ways depending on the career field and the factual situation. OTJ with degrees later sometimes make sense such as when the OTJ helps someone see that they really need additional training in some specific area. Sometimes the degree requirement seems like a means of excluding otherwise qualified people from getting hired. Sometimes the academics know a lot of theory but are clueless about practical application.

Getting a degree doesn't always mean that someone has mastered the subject of XYZ. In some instances, it might be akin to getting a learner's permit to drive under more experienced supervision.

 

[paulsharvey]

Scholarships are good, but they can be pretty limited at times. Son has applied for several, But, being a straight white male, who lives with both of his parents, who both have associates degrees; there is a lot he doesn't qualify for. He still has to write an essay for an Eagle Scout scholarship, about how it made him a better person. I told him, BS it, tell them it helped you land a job at 15 y/o (true), and the helped you survive when you got thrown out of the house, and lived in your truck (false).


Edit; yes, I know a "scout is honest, trustworthy", and all that; but a scout is also in need of money

 

[ultrarunner]

One niece had the worst timing... she wanted to attend UC Santa Barbara and they wanted her...

Then the athletic scholarship scandal hit and the program was frozen...

She did have 3 offers in writing... one minutes from home, one in Hawaii and one at UNLV.

First year full scholarship and COVID hit... kind of a bum deal all around.

She changed schools, no scholarship and graduates this Spring on the 5 year plan due to COVID gap year... she did work at Costco and hired on Coaching at a nearby high school...

So between scholarships, working, money set aside from school she should make it out debt free...

Even with hard work and talent there are plenty of outside forces that can come into play...

Still don't get parents being required to submit detailed full financials as a condition for admission when no assistance is requested and the student is an adult...

 

[2manyrocks]

The system as a whole doesn't make financial sense like many other aid programs that only make things more expensive except for those who benefit from administering the thing.

Covid really screwed things up for a lot of students and colleges, too. I know one college who made it through last year due to the large government aid package paid to them, but understand they are on their own this year. They were forced to do some belt tightening because their enrollment declined during covid because they couldn't go out and recruit and because it impacted fundraising, too.

Another college said their enrollment numbers are so far off because of covid that they laid off a bunch of teachers and staff.

 

[Torvy]

^yep! I honestly think most colleges need to narrow their focus. Anything that is not either directed toward a profession or classically part of academics, should not be a college thing. You want take any major that ends in studies, not college. Have a conference and discuss your theories. Those types of classes just drive wedges in society. They also cost money and produce degrees that seldom, if ever, pay for themselves. Any course that begins "Topics in ..." not a course, just a lecture and off campus on your own time/dime. Anything that would sound racist or sexist or whatever-ist if you turned it around, not needed in colleges.

We should at least be able to do this in state schools. They exist for the benefit of society, not to inflame divisions.

 

[paulsharvey]

So, my sister is a professor at what we used to call a community College, or now a state college vs a university. She had mentioned that their management spoke with them about needing to actively teach people, and try to prevent them from failing out, as apparently, they just recently came to find out, the students are the ones paying for the college professors payroll. Apparently enrollment took a pretty big hit over the last 3 years or so, enough to worry the colleges. She told me, they are trying to be more flexible, offering the same class in person, recorded, and live streamed, trying to make it more convenient for students. Now, this is a state college, and I'm sure Universities will be slower to adapt. The big universities seem to think the client should kiss their butt for the privilege to purchase their services.

I know and except that this does not mean it's a widespread trend, and is only a single case.

 

[paulsharvey]

In a mixed defense of colleges (mostly pointed at community College); I spend 3 years in one, 20+ years ago, to get an A.A.S in Building Construction or Construction Management or whatever. 100% not required for what I do; but it was a way to get VA cash. Anyways, I think the Building Materials, Surveying, and Drafting/Plans reading classes did help me early on. Just understanding how to shoot a simple grade, what a station is, and how concrete actually works. Now, I also had to take economics, composition, ethics, ect. Don't think those where Any benefit. This coarse was probably 50% guys in their 30s (25% ex military, 25% guys already in construction, 25% guys who failed out of other programs, and 25% fresh out of HS). We had an Ethics class, where the professor wanted to beat her life's mission into our heads (Ethipian female circumcision). One of the guys in class, basically told her, we are paying to be here, we don't care about Ethipian women, and either give a dang assignment or shut up. Pretty sure her head started smoking