Stump Bucket vs Mini-Ex for Shallow Digging

[bcs001]

I'm planning to get a 1.5-2 ton mini excavator for a variety of projects around the property but can afford it just yet. This spring I want to bury some 4" gutter drain lines and build about 100' retaining wall along my driveway. I have no experience with an excavator so renting one probably wont be very productive while I learn how to operate it so thinking a $900 narrow stump bucket with teeth could be a good alternative for my Branson 3620h. I have a very HD subsoiler that can be run along each trench and wall footing before digging down with the stump bucket. Anyone have experience doing this and were you happy with the results?
Thanks.

 

[M59]

Please provide more details on length and depth of drain to be buried along with nature of soil ( rocky, sandy, clay? ) and whether flat or on slope.

What is the thickness and height of the proposed retaining the wall and what is the grade like beside driveway that requires a retaining wall? Are you trying to prevent earth from sliding into the driveway or the driveway from sliding downhill?

In all of the above you would be better off with a backhoe or excavator for footing and a trencher for cutting trench to lay drain. A stump bucket on the front end of a tractor is a very limited tool that is not intended or designed for digging trenches nor excavating footings.

 

[ptsg]

Excavators do the digging, while the loaders move the loose material. Loaders on tractors aren't really meant for digging, just move loose material, lifting stuff within reason and common sense but it's just my opinion.

 

[bcs001]

Please provide more details on length and depth of drain to be buried along with nature of soil ( rocky, sandy, clay? ) and whether flat or on slope.

What is the thickness and height of the proposed retaining the wall and what is the grade like beside driveway that requires a retaining wall? Are you trying to prevent earth from sliding into the driveway or the driveway from sliding downhill?

In all of the above you would be better off with a backhoe or excavator for footing and a trencher for cutting trench to lay drain. A stump bucket on the front end of a tractor is a very limited tool that is not intended or designed for digging trenches nor excavating footings.

No question the proper tools would work best but just trying to get opinions on how successful I might be trying. The slopes where I want to lay drain line and wall are relatively flat and I can line up the tractor/bucket directly along each run. My thought is making a few passes with the subsoiler will loosen the ground then the stump bucket could finish digging and scooping out loos dirt.

The retaining wall will run along the high side of the driveway and be approx. 30" high to hold additional top soil I'll bring in to level the front yard. It will be built with something similar to Allan blocks and only be 3 block high. I don't think the footing will need to be any deeper than 24" for a 1st course gravel bed and maybe 30" wide to accommodate a drain/weep line behind the wall.

It may not work out but I still plan to use the stump bucket for other small stump and rock digging.

 

[part-time-Farmer-NC]

Not sure yet but I will have to get back to you on this. I bought one mainly to relocate some blueberry plants and other bushes. I had thought about using it to dig a trench where I want to lay down some electrical wire between shops. I am hoping to do the wiring on that in a month or so.

 

[Jrasband]

I would wait for the excavator if possible.

 

[nybirdman]

I had a stump bucket for a very short time;terrible tool for a trench.Got the chance to sell it and it was gone quickly.

 

[4570Man]

I’ve dug some trenches with a stump bucket on a skid steer. It sorta works but the ditch starts collapsing back in itself from the repeated driving back and forth. I wouldn’t put a stump bucket on a tractor either. It’s a good way to bend something. It’s called a loader not a digger for a reason.

 

[rScotty]

Of course a mini excavator would be best, but if you can't afford the excavator, consider a compromise with a backhoe attachment for your tractor. Even a small backhoe attachment will outdo the stump bucket by leagues.
Don't overlook the importance of a thumb, it is very useful for the lifting involved in building a retaining wall. We build stone walls with our backhoe and thumb.
rScotty

 

[M59]

Of course a mini excavator would be best, but if you can't afford the excavator, consider a compromise with a backhoe attachment for your tractor. Even a small backhoe attachment will outdo the stump bucket by leagues.
Don't overlook the importance of a thumb, it is very useful for the lifting involved in building a retaining wall. We build stone walls with our backhoe and thumb.
rScotty

rScotty, The voice of experience.

 

[rScotty]

I’ve dug some trenches with a stump bucket on a skid steer. It sorta works but the ditch starts collapsing back in itself from the repeated driving back and forth. I wouldn’t put a stump bucket on a tractor either. It’s a good way to bend something. It’s called a loader not a digger for a reason.

That's right. Digging is only half the problem. The other half is what to do with the dirt. Driving next to the ditch doesn't work very well.

 

[bcs001]

---consider a compromise with a backhoe attachment for your tractor. Even a small backhoe attachment will outdo the stump bucket by leagues....

I did consider that option but the cost of a frame mounted backhoe wasn't much different than a the auction pricing of a 1T-1.5T Chinese mini-ex.

Based on comments from those of you with actual hands-on experience I'll reset my expectations on what is achievable. Being a mechanical engineer I do understand the load dynamics and limitations of a loader frame and how to minimize the potential to damage components. I've been using a grapple for tree work for a few years and have not broken anything....yet.

I still plan to get a stump bucket and try to use it within reasonable limits for a few other projects around the property. Just having a bucket with a narrow toothed end on it does allow for getting some things done that are impossible with a full sized loader bucket until I can afford that mini-ex next year.

 

[arrow]

The trick to digging a trench with a stump bucket is to dig it backwards. Start at the end of the trench and move backward while digging.
So now you ask, but, but,but what happens to the dirt that isn't going into the bucket and gets piled before the bucket while digging backward?
Every ten-fifteen ft or so, take a "clean out" sweep down the trench then back out.
This technique works for short throw trenches and not so great for 100' ones.
In Georgia, its not like you're having to dig down 4' by code for water lines like up north.
For longer stretches, Ive used a 2x12 as a plank to back over the ditch so as to not collapse it.
It can be done if you use your head about it.
Many stump buckets are flared at the base. Try to find one that is straighter as it's better for trenching.
More like This type:

New for 2020-MTL John Deere Loader Long Bottom stump bucket — MTL Attachments

Brand new Built in the USA Long Bottom HD Tooth Stump bucket / universal fit. Long Bottom design gives extra depth for those hard jobs. Replaceable Pin on Teeth for digging those hard to get stumps. (We have hung a 10,000 lb machine off the ground on 1 tooth against a stump with out failure) 46&

www.mtlattachments.com

As opposed to this kind:

Economy Series Stump Bucket | Titan Attachments

Stump cleanup and removal is less a chore with a tool built to make the job quick and efficient. Uproot smaller tree stumps, lift concrete slabs, dig footings, and much more.

palletforks.com

Last piece of advice is don't skimp on one of these.
They take a lot of abuse and subject to side, upward and downward force stresses in a more pounds per square inch way as opposed to a regular bucket where the forces are more spread out..
1/4" thick sides would be minimum from what Ive experienced.

Something like this would work nicely. Not too long but stoutly built:

PROWORKS Heavy Duty Stump Bucket with Teeth Fits Skid Steer Quick Attach | eBay

Designed for versatility and strength, this bucket is perfect forstump removal, trench cleaning, ditch maintenance, and transplanting trees or shrubs. Multi-Purpose Design: Ideal for stump removal, trenching, ditch cleaning, and transplanting.

www.ebay.com

 

[bcs001]

Last piece of advice is don't skimp on one of these.

They take a lot of abuse and subject to side, upward and downward force stresses in a more pounds per square inch way as opposed to a regular bucket where the forces are more spread out..
1/4" thick sides would be minimum from what Ive experienced.

Thanks for your experience and I agree with your stump bucket recommendations. The one I've chosen is relatively short with a flat bottom and narrow to help minimize the loads on the loader arm and help with leverage.

 

[arrow]

Thanks for your experience and I agree with your stump bucket recommendations. The one I've chosen is relatively short with a flat bottom and narrow to help minimize the loads on the loader arm and help with leverage.

View attachment 2309955

Take into account that for ditch digging, if the bucket is of short throw, you’re only going as deep as the quick attach frame will allow.
The deepest I’ve seen these things dig is about 2’ and that was with a longer throw bucket.
It is a knack that usage will help acquire.
For digging purposes, you’re better off with a curved bottom however. You get a bit more leverage with a curved bucket.
Your tractor should handle a stump bucket better than the 25-30 hp medium sized cut.
These will certainly work in a pinch for shallow trenching and the thought of spending almost ten times less than for a hoe is rather a fringe benefit.

 

[etpm]

Where I live I have all sorts of rocks to deal with. I wanted to dig a ditch for water and power to my greenhouse, about 60 feet of ditch. I didn't want to use my backhoe because it has a 2 foot bucket and I wanted a much narrower ditch. I instead rented a small excavator, it was at least 2 tons but I think it was bigger. It had a thumb and did a great job picking the big rocks out of the ditch. Even so I wish the thing had been heavier because I kept pulling it along as I was digging. The tracks just slid and chewed up the grass. It was really easy for the bucket to catch a rock about football size crosswise in the ditch and the whole machine would move instead of the rock. This is in sandy loam soil with tons of rocks. There is no way I would have attempted to dig the ditch with a stump bucket. Just rent a proper sized machine, dig the ditch, and then use it for some other chores until the rental time is used up.
Eric

 

[bcs001]

All great info thanks. I started this thread primarily to get opinions and experience about digging a shallow footing for a 3 block high retaining wall and to trench for 4” gutter drain lines. I think the footings may be doable since the depth needed is only about 18-24” here in north Ga. and not any wider than the width of the bucket. I can also run the subsoiler to loosen the ground before digging. My tractor tires are set wide enough than I don’t think it will collapse the cut as I dig almost in a straight line.

I don’t think this is going to work for running 4” corrugated drain lines so I’ll just rent a ditch which trencher for the day.

 

[arrow]

All great info thanks. I started this thread primarily to get opinions and experience about digging a shallow footing for a 3 block high retaining wall and to trench for 4” gutter drain lines. I think the footings may be doable since the depth needed is only about 18-24” here in north Ga. and not any wider than the width of the bucket. I can also run the subsoiler to loosen the ground before digging. My tractor tires are set wide enough than I don’t think it will collapse the cut as I dig almost in a straight line.

I don’t think this is going to work for running 4” corrugated drain lines so I’ll just rent a ditch which trencher for the day.

I use mine more than I figured. It’s a good tool to have around. Always popping out stones and such.
They sell them with a grapple attachment as well and these would be great for firewood processing grabbing a stem to cut into rounds.
Not to be morbid, but it’s effective in digging final resting places for pets.

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

I'd recommend renting an excavator to dig footings. If you're reasonably coordinated, you will pick it up pretty quick. And, unless you have a lot of ditching/trenching to do, a backhoe is an expensive proposition, that doesn't make economic sense. And, in my opinion, a backhoe is less effective for trenching than a similar bucket capacity excavator.

 

[bcs001]

Seeing the diverse opinions and actual experiences of all who contribute here is why I even ask the questions and use this site. going into this subject I knew that a mini-ex is the BEST tool for the job and I do plan to purchase one probably next spring but until then I will improvise and try to make progress this year with my front yard landscaping projects using the tools I have and can afford for now.
As always, the discussions here bring up things I hadn't thought about or provide actual experience on what works and what doesn't which is exactly why I started the conversation. I'm pretty good an improvising and using the tools I have at my disposal. I'm also not opposed to getting down off my tractor and working a shovel to cleanup and finish a task that I started with maybe not the best tool but one that works good enough. Keep the opinions and comments coming.