Sub Soiler and Running pipe Question

[7mmrum]

I read these threads in the "Attachments" section about running poly pipe behind a subsoiler. My question is for the northern climates is this a good idea or can it be done? Some of the threads I have read, the poster is in somewhat of a southern climate.

Here's the deal:

I finished up a horse barn about 100 yards from the house the other week, and the wife wants a Frost Free hose bib installed at the barn for water. Also wants a few other bibs around the property. Anyway, in Northern VA, frost line is 3', so I'm assuming that I'd have to get a BH come in and dig a trench from point A (house) to point B (barn) 3' in depth and then lay the pipe. Make the connections at the two ends and then backfill the trench. My concern is so that the pipe doesn't crack in winter, the point of putting it 3' down into the earth.

However can I get a sub soiler and trench the pipe for this, knowing all along that depth probably won't get close to 3'. Do you shut off the water lines during the cold months of the year to the outside pasture bibs, if you don't go to a depth of 3'. Similar to your outside house hose bibs in the winter months? What have some of you guys done or have some suggestions?

Thanks

sean

 

[Dishpointer]

I have the same concerns about the frostline. I decided that I don't want to chance having the line freeze then having to correct the problem again so I am going to rent a trencher. You can get a Ditch Witch trancher that will dig a trench 6" wide and up to 5' depth for a reasonable price. If you schedule the rental for a Saturday than 9 times out of 10, you will be able to use it on Sunday for free since most rental shops are closed on Sundays. If you plan all of your runs right, you could easily do all your trenching in one day. The other option is to use PEX tubing since it can withstand ruptures from freezing. Just a thought.

 

[Renze]

I have put down electrical cables with a subsoiler. That was a 3 leg, if you use a 1 leg you can go down in 2 passes, 1 to loosen up and another one to bring the cable at depth, without loosing traction in the loose soil because a 1 leg only works in the middle between the tractor wheels.

I attach a ring behind the ripper chisel and feed the cable manually to avoid the cable to bend too tight over the ring and get damaged.

A local contractor has one with 2 guide plates behind the ripper leg and a cable pulley mounted inbetween. That works best if you need it on a regular basis.

 

[scesnick]

I am doing the exact same thing right now. I live in Western Md. and our freeze is a little harder than yours but not much. I solved this problem by putting a shutoff INSIDE the house and then running the water line from the shut off valve about a foot deep to the barn. I also ran some electric the same way.
When it turns cold I just shut off the valve inside the house and drain the pipe. I then have to carry the water but it works well in the summer. I mostly just use the watyer for the garden out by the barn anyway.

 

[Glenn9643]

Based on experience I wouldn't waste time/money on rolled poly however I got it into the ground. Either use PEX or schedule 40 PVC.
If you need it 3' deep rent a trencher for a day. With a subsoiler you'll be lucky to get it more than 20" throughout.

 

[hockeyhead]

You're going to want water in your "horse" barn in the winter. Hauling water daily, twice a day in the winter will not be pleasant. Rent the treancher and I'd put it as deep as the trencher would go. 3' mininmum 4' better

 

[Cowboyjg]

I agree with Glenn9643 although I would probably encourage the use of the Pex. Unlike other piping thats available it is freeze damage resistant. You won't regret having used it.

 

[KYErik]

It may seem like a hassle to have to rent the trencher, but as long as you don't hit any rock, you have it relatively easy. A few months ago, I put in a 200 ft waterline to a hydrant for my cattle. After starting with a trencher and hitting some loose shallow bedrock, I moved up to using my old full sized backhoe (Case 530). Got to one spot that the bedrock was so hard that I couldn't break it up/pull it out and couldn't go around it either. 6 inches was as deep as I could dig it in that one spot- I used poly on purpose because I have heard that it won't burst when it freezes (I suppose I might find out if that's true).

Its my belief that there is a big safety factor built in to the "frost line". I grew up in south central IL where the frost line was supposedly 30 inches- in reality for normal winters I'd say that it was 16-20 inches at max. Don't get me wrong, I feel that a house foundation's footer should always be put below the frost line because its such a big investment, and ita always better to be safe than to be sorry, but to me, I don't mind taking the risk on my waterline- and it was alot cheaper/easier than renting a jackhammer ;-)

I did bury a shutoff upstream from the shallow part of the waterline in case it does burst. But it just occured to me- how will I dig down to shut it off if the upper 6 inches of soil is frozen solid?????? whoops....

 

[flusher]

I read these threads in the "Attachments" section about running poly pipe behind a subsoiler. My question is for the northern climates is this a good idea or can it be done? Some of the threads I have read, the poster is in somewhat of a southern climate.

Here's the deal:

I finished up a horse barn about 100 yards from the house the other week, and the wife wants a Frost Free hose bib installed at the barn for water. Also wants a few other bibs around the property. Anyway, in Northern VA, frost line is 3', so I'm assuming that I'd have to get a BH come in and dig a trench from point A (house) to point B (barn) 3' in depth and then lay the pipe. Make the connections at the two ends and then backfill the trench. My concern is so that the pipe doesn't crack in winter, the point of putting it 3' down into the earth.

However can I get a sub soiler and trench the pipe for this, knowing all along that depth probably won't get close to 3'. Do you shut off the water lines during the cold months of the year to the outside pasture bibs, if you don't go to a depth of 3'. Similar to your outside house hose bibs in the winter months? What have some of you guys done or have some suggestions?

Thanks

sean

Use the right tool for the job. And that's a Ditch Witch or Vermeer trencher, not a subsoiler.

I rented a Ditch Witch 1330 walk-behind trencher in May05 from Home Depot for $125 (the 24-hour rate) and cut about 1100 feet of 12", 18" and 24" deep in about 8 hours. That particular trencher can do 36" deep trenches and you could do your 300 feet of trench in a few hours.

My neighbor rented a Vermeer riding trencher a few weeks ago for about $300 (24-hour rate) and cut about 500 feet of trench 3-4 feet deep in a few hours.

 

[WVBill]

Sean,

I'm just over the state line from you in Summit Point. I put my outside pipe down with my sub-soiler. I knew in advance that I wouldn't need it in the winter (it's just for watering the garden). In the fall, I disconnect it from the house supply, open the taps and blow it out with my air compressor.

If I needed water in the winter, I'd rent a "ditch-witch".