subsoiler

[randy41]

i've been plowing my fields with a 2 bottom 14" turning plow for quite a few years and i feel like a subsoiler would provide some benefit by breaking up the hardpan that might be setting up. i've got a ford 1710 tractor with 4wd. i grow veggies that i sell at the farmers market. i've seen a subsoiler on the TSC website for about $150.
so how do you use one? you go across the field at what interval? or up and down the field in the opposite direction to what i plow? any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[npaden]

I would look for a chisel plow. It is basically a subsoiler with more points. I'm not sure how big a Ford 1710 is but if you can pull a 2 bottom 14" plow you could probably pull at least 2 but probably 3 chisel points. That will do the same job about 3 times faster than a subsoiler.

 

[BobG_in_VA]

I would look for a chisel plow. It is basically a subsoiler with more points. I'm not sure how big a Ford 1710 is but if you can pull a 2 bottom 14" plow you could probably pull at least 2 but probably 3 chisel points. That will do the same job about 3 times faster than a subsoiler.

Rough order of magnitude would be 15HP per chisel if they are pulled at the proper depth. I doubt that the 1710 could pull more than 2 and maybe only1. Plows normally pull at 6-7" and the chisel goes to more like 10-12".

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Rough order of magnitude would be 15HP per chisel if they are pulled at the proper depth. I doubt that the 1710 could pull more than 2 and maybe only1. Plows normally pull at 6-7" and the chisel goes to more like 10-12".

In most cases that's right. The difference between a chisel plow and a field cultivator is basically the depth at which it is intended to work. Chisel plows being used for deeper tillage. Rippers and then subsoilers work even deeper yet. "plow pan", or normal compaction layer level varies with soil. Some place deal with rock. The implement of choice and the depth at which you use it at can vary. If you have the soil depth to deep rip or subsoil, do it. Never hurts, almost always helps a lot. When used in dry soil, a subsoiler or ripper shatters or fractures subsoil. That is preferable to ripping a slice in wet ground.

I've used a subsoiler 1 time. I had a part of a field that stayed wet until early summer then dried to concrete by fall. The area was about 2 acres. I went north/south 3' to 4' apart, then east/west same way. I did that early July. In August I disced and seeded. (pasture) It drained better so spring water wasn't a problem and turned into a healthy stand of grass. I used the subsoiler at 14" to 16". In places you can hit solid limestone at 3'. 47hp (on the pto) pulled 1 shank just fine but wouldn't have wanted to try 2.

 

[randy41]

a chisel plow looks a lot like my cultivator. so maybe if i put 3 shovels on my cultivator at maximum depth i would get the same result. if i cant pull it then i can take one off. my soil is pretty deep although it has a lot of rocks. better drainage would help me during the summer when a wet field can prevent me from weeding for a couple of days.

 

[Renze]

Whatever you do, NEVER mess with wet soil. We ploughed a muddy field 5 years ago, last year i waited till it was dry and cultivated, ripped and then ploughed again. Most of it is better now, but there are still too many bad spots which have standing water in the middle of the summer (even though
we are on beach sand soil, which needs a lot of irrigation to keep it green)

I wouldnt recommend running a subsoiler at 3 to 4 inch spacing, if you have a healthy subsoil all you can do is mess up what nature (worms, bugs, frost/thaw etcetera) has built over years.

I can get an 11 tine (2 meter working width) chisel up to 35 cm deep before i loose traction, which is below ploughing depth. going 2 to 3" below ploughing depth is enough to cure any hard pan generated by a plough.
about ripping, deeper isnt allways better. We have another field which is heavy soil, red iron ore containing soil. There is lots of ore rubble just below the topsoil, on top of bright white sand at 40cm depth. What i do is run the ripper at 50cm depth so the chisels run in the beach sand subsoil, and max shattering effect is created in the soil just above the shank, in the ore.

Best way to reduce compaction i found, is spreading lots and lots of aged straw manure, with lots of worms and bugs. We had a vegetable grower take our horse manure for free, for years. We kept ripping and re seeding this field every 3 years. Until the vegetable grower didnt need our horse muck anymore, and we bought a manure spreader to spread it on our own fields. When applying lots of organic matter on a grass field, lots of bugs and worms go to the surface to work the organic matter down into the soil. This gives a lot of pores in the soil which allows water to drain into the subsoil, and aerates the sod. Since we spread straw muck again we didnt have any problems with water standing on our fields.

There is just one drawback, the worms and bugs that are attracted by the straw muck, also attract lots of moles

 

[Highbeam]

I ran the TSC subsoiler to maximum depth about 5 feet on center. I had created a drainage ditch and the subsoiler allowed me to create underground tunnels, aerate, and generally uncompact the clay soils in rows leading to the ditch. I pulled the single shank in low range in 4wd which took about all my 30 HP tractor had in this very firm and dry clay. Luckily no rocks. A pretty boring job once you get the hang of it.

I noticed very early on that the subsoiler "pops" up a great deal of soil which is a pretty good indication that there is less soil underground. I actualy thought I ruined a pretty smooth field but I was able to smooth the ridges nicely. That low field is now dryer than ever with excellent improvements in drainage. Maybe next year I'll subsoil in the opposite direction.

Oh... one more thing, the subsoiler actually got warm to the touch from the friction. Cool.

 

[Gizmo36]

You all use a subsoiler to get water out of your way . I use the subsoiler when the ground gets hard and the water start to run off and don't go in the ground.I run my subsoiler about 3ft deep it lets the water go in the ground when it rains so when it is dry the ground still has water in the ground.

 

[Highbeam]

My goal with the SS was to eliminate ponding on the surface. The graded ditch was to try and drain the subsoil after the water made it down to the bottom of the topsoil. Mainly though, my goal was to stop ponding by letting the water get in past the compacted surface.

 

[Slamfire]

I'd try this: Zone Building
You don't have to do it every year. Cut the slots at 18" intervals, and use every other one for row crops. Alternate every year. Stay off the zones after you've cut them.

 

[Sully2]

I ran the TSC subsoiler to maximum depth about 5 feet on center. I had created a drainage ditch and the subsoiler allowed me to create underground tunnels, aerate, and generally uncompact the clay soils in rows leading to the ditch. I pulled the single shank in low range in 4wd which took about all my 30 HP tractor had in this very firm and dry clay. Luckily no rocks. A pretty boring job once you get the hang of it.

I noticed very early on that the subsoiler "pops" up a great deal of soil which is a pretty good indication that there is less soil underground. I actualy thought I ruined a pretty smooth field but I was able to smooth the ridges nicely. That low field is now dryer than ever with excellent improvements in drainage. Maybe next year I'll subsoil in the opposite direction.

Oh... one more thing, the subsoiler actually got warm to the touch from the friction. Cool.

I bought a very HD subsoiler early this year...with the intent on using it to buy some electric wires in the backyard. Dealer told me it took 40HP to make it work good...but told me if I couldnt pull it..to bring it back and he'd give me my $$ back. I sunk it in about 10-12 inches...LMAO..and at 2500 rpm...all 4 tires would spin...couldnt do ****! I gave it to a farmer friend and he came and used his backhoe to do my trenching.

I watched him use it...70HP International...turbo charged...and when it got it all the way down...the black smoke was a rolling out of that tractor..and turbo was a screaming.... Sure amazed me being a newbie now good of an anchor those things make!!

 

[DocHeb]

In the instances you described the blade of the subsoiler was probably in too much of a vertical position. If I run through my clay soil with the toplink too short, the subsoiler will grab the soil and try to "dive" to China (and provide rapidly increasing resistance to forward motion.) It will stall my tractor in 5 feet of trench or less. Lengthen the top link a bit, and the subsoiler will not pull itself too far into the ground. I use my hydraulic toplink shortened to get the subsoiler to depth, then lengthen it to allow me to move forward.

 

[danbuf]

I used my subsoiler on my B3030, with turf tires, and it would easily pull it down 15".. Key is to play with top link

 

[Charolais]

I use a cat. 2 JD subsoiler, single shank. I run about 30" apart and 25-27 inches deep. Run at about 3 mph with a 64hp 2wd. Can see the rear tires wrinkle when in real hard soil.(like cow paths) Just finished 7 acres of cutover land. (rotten stumps)

Years ago I use to subsoil behind wheat harvest in July. Dry hard soil. Could see the earth crack in front of the front wheels while going along. I use to think subsoiling should only be done in mid summer when the soil was dry. Learned from some others it works just as well when the moisture is higher in our soil. Sure is easier on the tractor,operator and subsoil points with some fall moisture in the soil.

 

[bx23barry]

I remember seeing two D9 cats pulling one 6 foot ripper shank at the fresno farm show many years ago. Both them cats were blowing black.

 

[randy41]

I tried just using my cultivator set as deep as possible as a chisel plow but it didn't dig deep enough. I guess the cultivator shovels are too curved. So I would really like to get different shaped pieces that I could just mount on the cultivator tool bar. Anyone know where I could get that? The cultivator is a Fred Cain. I can post a picture if you think that might help you see what I'm talking about.

 

[npaden]

Most of your farm and ranch supply stores have a ton of different points that interchange on most of your middle busters or sub soilers. Gebo's here has them. I'm pretty sure most tractorsupply stores would have them.

Here is a couple links on their online site -

Tractor Supply Company - STRAIGHT CHISEL SPIKES - UPSET

Tractor Supply Company - WHEATLAND SWEEPS

At Gebo's they were under $10.

 

[wushaw]

I put one of them chisel points on my middle buster a few weeks ago and it didn't do squat, I thought OK I need more weight so I strapped a little over 100lbs of bumbells on and still no more than @ 3" so I put it up for the day and thought I should have just used the potato digger sweep. I just didn't want to dig a wide trench.
They obviously work on a big chisel plow...

I used the potato sweep last year to dig a shallow trench for my dog wire and I got it to @ 4" with no problem, I was just using my 15hp Mitsubish to dig it with, I know it could have gone deeper but the little tractor couldn't pull it.

 

[randy41]

i just finished running 2 ways over a field with the cultivator and i think the way i have it set i got down 8" or so. and now I feel like I don't have to use the turning plow on that field this year. maybe run over it again in the spring with the cultivator and then just rotary till before planting. it takes way less time using the cultivator than plowing.

 

[Glenn9643]

Ideally when you pull a subsoiler, the ground behind you should look similar to a molehill. Looking at the results from Highbeam's picture attachment the ground was too dry (I've been guilty of making that mess too). Needs to be dry enough for the pan to shatter, but have enough moisture to keep the large clods from rolling to the surface.
Best I can determine, a subsoiler requires about 40HP per shank, and is normally used at about 20" depth.
Some places deeper, and I would expect, more HP required.
Don't expect a cultivator frame to handle what you would put on a subsoiler. I destroyed a single shank subsoiler in my clay ground pulling about 20" and leaving a trail about like Highbeam and it was (home-built by a friend) built stout. After I finally got my field smoothed out enough to clip at a decent pace I realized the benefit of the subsoiling. It really helped to get rid of the standing water in the low areas.
My problem was in a field where I had planted some trees on 50' centers, and I ran the subsoiler down the rows of trees on each side, and then perpendicular to that on each side of the rows of trees. Had a heck of a mess for a while, but if done with proper soil moisture it would have been much easier to handle.