SUDT2 versus Universal Hydraulic Fluid

[gwdixon]

I got my L4330 at 510 hours and it's coming up on it's 600 hour mark. I have no clue when (or if) the hydraulic fluid was changed at the 400 hour mark and no way to find out (previous owner passed just after the sale).

Do you think I just change out the entire hydraulic fluid at 600 hours,not just the filter? I currently have 2.5 gallons of SUDT2 (at $55), so I'd need to buy about 6 more gallons (total of 8 gallons for the L4330, from memory).

Thanks,

I'm with the guys who recommend the change of oil. Especially since you are not sure of the history.

 

[RedNeckGeek]

I buy a lot of stuff with engines off of Craig's List. First thing I do when I get a new orphan is change ALL the fluids, no matter what the previous owner says was or wasn't done. That way I know what was done, how it was done, when it was done, and what parts/fluids were used. Then I start my usual maintenance routine from there.

Regarding SUDT2, I haven't used it, but a few years ago I switched from SUDT to the Traveler's oil recommended earlier in this thread. I noticed the difference immediately: more noise, harder to get in and out of gear, especially in what passes for cold here in Northern California, and it seemed like the tractor (a Kubota L3240 HST) had less power, especially climbing hills. They aren't big differences, but I'm on the fence about the 30%-40% premium cost of the Kubota stuff. I have 10 gallons of the TSC oil stockpiled for the next change coming up, but maybe after that I'll try some of the SUDT2 to see if it brings back some of the pep. Maybe by then they'll have come up with SUDT3!?!

 

[ovrszd]

In regards to changing fluid. After I get 10-20 hrs on the new SUDT2 I'm going to take an oil sample for analysis. Then check it again each 100hrs. I'll not change this fluid out until I see some significant change in the oil characteristics or have some sort of failure. I'll change the filters at the recommended interval.

 

[masalser]

In regards to changing fluid. After I get 10-20 hrs on the new SUDT2 I'm going to take an oil sample for analysis. Then check it again each 100hrs. I'll not change this fluid out until I see some significant change in the oil characteristics or have some sort of failure. I'll change the filters at the recommended interval.

What does fluid analysis cost per sample typically?

 

[ovrszd]

What does fluid analysis cost per sample typically?

I buy the kits thru JD and they cost $25. I only do them on extended use fluids such as hydraulics, transmissions, etc.

 

[art]

Art, going back to the older engines of the 50s, 60s and 70s, it seemed that they, as you stated, would start consuming oil as the oil aged. A change to new oil would often stop that useage until it too aged. I don't seem to see that as much with the modern engines. Another issue I've experienced with those older engines was they might drink one brand of oil and hardly use any if switched to a different brand.

My 7.3 Powerstroke with 180K miles uses less than 2 qts in 3K miles. And it seems to use that in the first 1K miles.

Terry's Chrysler 3.5L V6 with 250K miles on it running Mobil 1 synthetic didn't use any oil in 6K miles.

Neither of my tractors use any oil between changes running John Deere plus 50 oil.

You are correct of the different oils and results in consumption. A good oil has often stopped oil consumption on many engines. I have also seen as on your power stroke, a full engine would seek it's level below the proper stick full label. I drove a 290 cummins in a tractor trailer a number of years ago and within four hours of driving it would be down a gallon and it would never get any lower and no signs of leaks!

 

[ovrszd]

Although I've totally blown it off and not taken an oil sample, I want to do an update to this thread.

I've had the opportunity to run the tractor in cold weather now. It's currently sitting in an unheated machine shed. Over the past couple weeks I've ran the tractor several times. The noisy steering is completely gone now. It also is easier to shift gears in the tranny. I don't notice much improvement in how the hydraulic shuttle engages. But I've definitely gained in the steering noise problem. I'll get off my keester and do an oil sample so I have a base and then check it periodically. I still have no intention of changing this oil unless I see something definitive in the oil samples. The jury is still out on whether the cost is worth it. But it sure fixed my steering noise problems.

 

[Happy Gilmore]

Although I've totally blown it off and not taken an oil sample, I want to do an update to this thread. I've had the opportunity to run the tractor in cold weather now. It's currently sitting in an unheated machine shed. Over the past couple weeks I've ran the tractor several times. The noisy steering is completely gone now. It also is easier to shift gears in the tranny. I don't notice much improvement in how the hydraulic shuttle engages. But I've definitely gained in the steering noise problem. I'll get off my keester and do an oil sample so I have a base and then check it periodically. I still have no intention of changing this oil unless I see something definitive in the oil samples. The jury is still out on whether the cost is worth it. But it sure fixed my steering noise problems.

I noticed an improvement or at least I think I did when I switched over to SUDT2 in my little BX1500. Seemed to smooth things out a bit. But then again when I was 17 I thought my car was faster after an oil change and a car wash, lol. The real 0-60 times didn't improve til I vacuumed it though.

 

[rScotty]

Although I've totally blown it off and not taken an oil sample, I want to do an update to this thread.

I've had the opportunity to run the tractor in cold weather now. It's currently sitting in an unheated machine shed. Over the past couple weeks I've ran the tractor several times. The noisy steering is completely gone now. It also is easier to shift gears in the tranny. I don't notice much improvement in how the hydraulic shuttle engages. But I've definitely gained in the steering noise problem. I'll get off my keester and do an oil sample so I have a base and then check it periodically. I still have no intention of changing this oil unless I see something definitive in the oil samples. The jury is still out on whether the cost is worth it. But it sure fixed my steering noise problems.

I like the idea of taking oil samples. For one thing, how does a person know if they are buying "real" SUDT2? Or know if the particular container of "SUDT2" they buy is the same as other batches? Does Kubota even make their own oil?

Check out:
https://thecounterfeitreport.com/product/133/Kubota-Super-UDT-Hydraulic-Fluid.html

if that link doesn't work usehttps://thecounterfeitreport.com/product/133/Kubota-Super-UDT-Hydraulic-Fluid.html

I've no idea who makes Kubota's oils or if it is a contract company. Or maybe more than one company. Might even be a low bidder. I also have no idea how tightly anyone oversees the oil blending companies that Kubota contracts to make their oils - if that's is what they do, but it's possible the oils themselves are not consistant. That would sure explain why we get so many varying accounts of how UDT, SUDT, and SUDT2 behave in our tractors. We have been assuming that the oil is the same, but in addition to the different effects we all see, we already have evidence that the oil isn't always the same....I know because I'm one of the guys who unknowingly bought the counterfeit oil and posted about it here on TBN.

A couple of years ago my maintenance hours came due and I decided to try SUD2....or at least I thought thats what I was doing. The SUDT2 I bought from my local Kubota dealer made my hydraulic pump whine terribly when cold. The difference was apparent the moment the motor started. I posted about it on TBN at the time, although back then I wasn't sure what was happening. All I knew was it wasn't right. Anyway, whatever was happening seemed so wrong to me that a few days late I changed it back to a standard hydraulic oil - but the whining the other oil caused when cold still continues. So apparently there was some wear but luckily no other real problems. It was pure luck and intuition that caused me to throw away a few hundred bucks in new oil and replace it (more dollars!) before whatever damage was happening turned into broken parts. A near disaster.

Later I found out that what my Kubota dealer sold me was a fake oil labeled as Kubota SUDT2.

Now I'm reluctant to use oils sold by any small time custom blenders like Kubota uses to make their fluids. There's just too much potential for big time damage what with unknown quality control, and no one willing to be responsible to prevent abuses. The Kubota dealer isn't to blame; he has no way to know what is really in the containers he is stocking.

Having been fooled once, I think a wiser course now is to stay with lubrication products from the larger well-known companies who make their own oils as their primary product. They have more to lose by selling a bad product: plus they have the resources to test and prevent it. Admittedly I'm crossing my fingers and guessing here, but hopefully the major oil refiners do monitor their own products.

Did anyone else get caught in this scam?
To their credit, it was at another Kubota dealer that I found out about the counterfeit oil - although that didn't happen until some time after the fact. That dealer's mechanic gave me a copy of a bulletin about the counterfeit oil that they had received from Kubota. Interestingly, neither dealer offered to do anything to go any farther with helping me out. And neither one even offered to replace or refund my money for the counterfeit oil.

These things happen. No grudge on my part; it's now water under the bridge. My preference is to learn from it and continue on.
But I do think we all have a responsibility to share knowledge and to help each other out or what is a forum for?

So maybe we ought to at least consider the possibility that what we are seeing as a variable results when we swap between UDT, SUDT, and SUDT2 is actually a difference in the different batches of the oils themselves. After all, that has already happened once that we know of. Taking oil samples is one place to start.
rScotty

 

[art]

I like the idea of taking oil sample.
Now I'm reluctant to use oils sold by any small time custom blenders like Kubota uses to make their fluids. There's just too much potential for big time damage what with unknown quality control, and no one willing to be responsible to prevent abuses. The Kubota dealer isn't to blame; he has no way to know what is really in the containers he is stocking.

rScotty

Having been around motor powered equipment all my life I have seen other companies with issues here. It would be quicker to notice with a small company vs the larger one because of the niche that the oils fill. We often use the Kubota oil as a first heal all of troubled hydraulic, steering and noise issues on all makes of tractors we work on! For years I had the upmost respect for the CNH fluids as IH was the first to introduce the hydrostatic transmission and their oil is good! Kubota's has proven to make that chassis work better.
My thoughts are that larger name brand companies built oil for generic applications that will work, they also might be making other brand oils. I have seen the base large name manufacturers make mistakes as well as the little ones.
I've seen companies that virtually copy nearly exact, except for cheaper base products looking nearly identical to the name brand, but do to looking for a cheaper product, they sacrificed longevity for price.
It wasn't but a month ago a fellow tried to sell me on a new chain saw, it had stihl decals on it even on the bar and was brand new. I was taken a bit back as it had an outboard clutch on it and multiple knobs for start and choke. My thoughts were it was a poulan!

You can and should look for the best value to you! Learn what you are buying first. With that note, it is buyer beware!