Suggestions for a good synthetic motor oil for my ck30

[Dargo]

Where are the real world tests and economic analyses?

A good buddy of mine runs 3 different drag cars. He was basically getting 1 season out of his bracket cars and about a half out of his heads up 1/4 mile car. I've spent many hours being free labor learning how to build a drag engine with him. After switching to Red Line oil, when he went to tear down one of his 572ci engines after a season, it showed no measurable wear anywhere. The other car running a 468ci engine was the same; no wear. He finished the season with his other car with no tear down.

Each car had the oil changed after each weekend as usual. Same engines, using the same supplier with the same re-build parts. For years and years, one season and the engines were flat worn out. Now, with Red Line, they show no wear.

Maybe the magic engine fairy visited all of his cars lately and that is why he has seen what he has. If so, then the engine oil had nothing to do with it. Also, if that is true, if your engine in your tractor wears out you don't have to do anything to it either. The engine fairy will come replace it for you.

I've personally seen all the proof I need to see. Based on real world results that I've seen, your estimated percentages of difference are off by several hundred percent.

 

[mrutkaus]

Dargo, Where could these tests be found to read over? I would be interested in seeing the test results. I thought Rotella was a good oil, but if it's not then I definately would like to change oil brands. I like to take care of my toys and if an oil brand change is what's needed, then another oil change is near for my CK30hst. Thanks

On the Shell site, the oil guy says that the non synthetic part of Rotella holds combustion byproducts in suspension better than synthetic. Also in another place, someone points out that the base stock of Rotella Synthetic is very high quality and used in racing cars.

Additionally Shell is coming out with another version of Rotella to be available in the fall.

I would suspect Shell knows what they are doing with oils.

Mike

 

[Dargo]

I would suspect Shell knows what they are doing with oils.

Mike

I'd say! They are marketing the heck out of an average oil and making billions by doing so.

 

[Highbeam]

I'd say! They are marketing the heck out of an average oil and making billions by doing so.

Yes, Shell knows how to make a profit. Shell knows about oils too, but Shell's highest priority is making money so I wouldn't blindly trust what they say.

 

[IslandTractor]

Shell vs Dargo's buddy. Marketing hype verses anecdotes. I guess the real question remains what is the actual data in tractors. I can easily imagine that for a high performance gasoline (or exotic fuel) engine that runs very few hours but with extreme conditions that there is SOME feature of synthetic that is an important advantage. On the otherhand, that same critical oil quality may mean bubkiss in real world conditions. It especially doesn't make sense if one continues to change oil every hundred hours as dino oil weaknesses (more rapid breakdown, acid build up etc) are mitigated by regular oil changes. I don't know the real percentage of extra life one could get out of a tractor engine by using synthetic and continuing to change oil at 100hr intervals (is that what you do Dargo?) but I am pretty sure that a "normal" engine life for a well maintained tractor is pretty darn close to the overall life expectancy of the CUT class machine itself. If regular oil will get me to 3000 or 4000 hours why would I want to invest lots of money to keep the engine running for 5000 hours (these numbers are guesses) when it would be uneconomical to keep the rest of the tractor working beyond 3000 hours. I know it would cost at least $1000 extra to use synthetic over that period.

I am as susceptible to anecdotal "proof" as the next guy but I still would like to see data to show synthetics make economic sense in CUTs. In God we trust, all others must show data.

 

[Dargo]

I'm trying to think of how to put this without sounding sarcastic, which I'm not, but I don't really care. I've read the test results, I've sent in and gotten lab tests on my own vehicles, and I've seen, measured, and touched with my own hands the parts that have been either worn by regular oil or shown no wear when high quality true synthetics have been used. I guess what I'm trying to say as politely as possible is that I am not trying to sell you on anything. Honest. Again, not to be rude, but I do not care if you fill your crankcase with WD40. It means naught to me.

I've simply offered up information based on data I've read, data I've seen, and actual torn down engine components I've seen with my own eyes. The question was to suggest a good synthetic motor oil for albm10's CK30. I've only tried to make my suggestion (intended only to help him - I've not suggested using crap and then laugh when he has premature engine failure) based on what I've read, seen from lab results, and seen from tearing down the same engines that have used quality conventional motor oil vs high quality true synthetic motor oil. Nothing more, nothing less. You opt to not believe me. No problem. I'm not paying for your tractor nor any of your future repair bills (and maybe there will be none - again, I'm not wishing bad things for you).

I buy the highest quality equipment I see fit for my specific needs and when it costs me about $15 more a year to go with the highest quality engine oil and filter vs. going the cheap route; I see that as money well spent. If I keep my tractor for 20 years and I've spent $300 more in the 20 years to have superior lubrication, so be it. Personally, I feel it's worth it. Your opinion is that is not worth the extra $15 a year for your tractor. That is completely your call and, as stated earlier, I don't care. I derive no portion of my income from selling oil or oil filters. However, I will tell you that a good portion of my income is based on being able to determine how long something mechanical will last. (that's about as big of a clue as to the business I own that I'll give) Again, I hope I have not insulted you, but this is my position based on the information I have. You are free to disagree all you want and I promise I will not think any less of you; no kidding.

 

[albmn10]

Thanks for the tip Dargo, i dont disagree that the synthetics are better for the engines. I will try to locate some Red Line and give it a go. I believe Auto Palace carrys that brand.. Matt

 

[IslandTractor]

Dargo,

I appreciate that synthetic helps you sleep at night yet I remain unconvinced by your logic and anecdotes. You refer to data but haven't given a reference or URL. Maybe it comes from working in a field where we have learned over and over again not to trust anecodotes or even science that is not well designed or specific to the problem at hand. What seems logical to the non expert often does not work out. Honestly, I have had a series of questions about oils (because I am certainly not an expert) but have never ventured far into the oil, fuel and lubricants section of TBN just because there is too much opinion, too much pseudoscience and not enough reasoned and critical review of the ideas expounded there. Asking a question there seems tantamount to asking someone in a health food store what they think of vitamin supplements. The answer will be forceful, the scientific basis often weak or irrelevant, and lord knows there will be anecdotes supporting all manner of opinions.

Just to be clear, I am in no way down on synthetics and I use M1 in my car with 10,000 mile changes as specifically recommended by the manuafacturer. However, absent a recommendation from Kioti (or any of the tractor manufacturers as best I can tell), or a reasonably scientific and unbiased evaluation (i.e., something not produced by the Amsoil marketing department) of the pros and cons of using synthetics with normal (100hr) change intervals in a tractor diesel, I guess for now I will stick with old fashion dino oil for my CUT. Faith based maintenance ain't my style. I'd be thrilled to find something written by the guys at U of Nebraska or similar institution that addressed the problem.

I too like to take care of my equipment and you are certainly correct that if you only use a tractor 100hrs a year you won't pay more than about $20 extra per year which ain't bad as insurance goes. You might get even more powerful protection by putting that $20 in a church collection plate. I'll choose to continue my search for a well reasoned impartial evidence based expert review. If you find one please pass it along.

 

[Dargo]

Dargo,

I appreciate that synthetic helps you sleep at night yet I remain unconvinced by your logic and anecdotes.

Again, at the risk of sounding rude, I am not trying to convince you or sell you on anything. Really; I don't care if you use any oil at all. For some reason that point seems to elude you more than the benefits of synthetic over conventional oil eludes you.

Just so I don't sound so rude, here is a link to a free book you can get that explains 177 pages worth of engine oil properties. It is called the "Motor Oil Bible" by 'trustmymechanic'; aka Austin C. Davis 'The Honest Mechanic'. Here is your free book: http://www.trustmymechanic.com/motor-oil-bible.pdf

There are literally hundreds of thousands of other pages worth of information available that will give you the same information. All you have to do is read what is available and proven to be scientific facts. Please feel free to disbelieve anything you read anywhere on the internet or in the library as I am not trying to sell you anything nor convince you of anything. I was only responding to albmn10's post question.

And, please, give me a break on your Amsoil insinuations. You draw the word 'Amsoil' like most people draw the word 'Amway'. I said that I have more experience with Red Line than Amsoil. I only said that Amsoil tests out just as good and costs less. I keep hearing that Amsoil is a pyramid marketing scheme, but yet it costs less than Red Line and Royal Purple; the other top true synthetic competitors.

 

[IslandTractor]

Dargo, I never accused you of trying to sell me anything. I just kept asking for data and you answered repeatedly with your experiences. I do appreciate the MotorOil Book URL. Looks like a good place to start. It seems to focus mostly on measurable physical properties of the oils, which is certainly reasonable, but I have not yet (quick skim) found any long term real world engine tests. Too bad the Nebraska style tractor evaluations are not available for motor oils.

Thanks