Super A meets a baler

flusher · Dec 31, 2008

Earlier this year I bought a few items for haying including a Mahindra 5525 tractor (54 hp engine) and a MF-124 baler.
Also found a nice Farmall Super A locally at a great price ($1300 with a 6-ft mid mount sicklebar mower and scraper blade on the 3pt hitch).
I've been collecting servicing and restoring info on the Super A when I happened upon this YouTube video.

YouTube - FARMALL Super A

It's a 6-minute slide show on refurbishing a Super A followed by a short video showing the Super A pulling a baler about the size of my MF-124. Surprising to me since I would have expected that baler to really jerk that little tractor around. Not so.

JDeerekid · Dec 31, 2008

Nice restore. Doesn't even look like that super A flinched a bit pulling that baler. Do you have any action shots of it with the mower? I always liked the side mowers.

flusher · Dec 31, 2008

JDeerekid said:
Nice restore. Doesn't even look like that super A flinched a bit pulling that baler. Do you have any action shots of it with the mower? I always liked the side mowers.

Not yet. My mower is off the tractor now so I can do the servicing/refurbishment. Hope to get around to that chore in a few months.

wolc123 · Dec 31, 2008

That brought back some memories. I remember helping my grandad bale with his old F-14. He even had a wagon hitched behind the baler (thats where I got to work). These days everyone is crazy about hp, but as that video shows, it does not take all that much to do many jobs.

scott_vt · Dec 31, 2008

Good Evenin Ray,
Great video !!! Really enjoyed it ! Im providing a link of when I rebuilt my 49 Super A ! Some day it will go to one of my grandsons, but not until Im in the box !

I absolutely love that tractor, it never amazes me of what its capable of ! And its 60 years old, which is two years ilder than me, and thats old !

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/photos/84042-any-day-now-any-day.html

BTW, here is the snowplow project for the Super A !

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...low-frame-super.html?highlight=snowplow+super

rankrank1 · Jan 1, 2009

Success stories like this one, which are baling with low hp in conjunction with relatively low tractor weight are what convinced me to try baling with my itty bitty wannabe tractor (Kubota L285). I figured if tractors such as Farmall A's, B's, and even Allis Chalmer's B's could do it then I should be able to as well if I properly selected the right baler. Further cementing my decision to try baling with my itty bitty tractor was when I read in several of the old JD baler books which only specifed a John Deere 40 as all that was needed for the recommended tractor - The JD 40 is a small low hp tractor.

Recommendation for anyone considering baling with low hp and low tractor weight: Think of it like pulling a travel trailer with a lightweight 1/2 ton truck. It can work quite well if you pick the right trailer to put behind your lightweight 1/2 ton truck or in this case the proper baler to put behind your low hp/lightweight tractor. Just like travel trailers, not all square balers are created the same. Some of the newer balers are of a higher capacity and really need the tractor hp/tractor weight in front of them to work well while most of the older balers are of a lower capacity but can operate just fine on very little tractor hp. As with towing a trailer, go smaller with the trailer or in this case the baler if you will be towing through the mountains or baling hilly terrain. Of course if you are really light with the tractor then simply drop the bales on the ground and do not even consider towing a wagon behind the baler. Common sense in selecting selecting the proper baler will go a long way to remaining both safe and successful.

vsteel · Jan 1, 2009

It must have a lot to do with the baler. I know the JD 336 that I grew up around would have jerked that little tractor all over the place. I always baled with an Oliver 770, its about 50HP and 6K lbs and it would rock it around a little. Nothing terrible, but would move it. I couldn't imagine using it with a small tractor like that. That baler in the video though looks very smooth.

zzvyb6 · Jan 1, 2009

The physics of baling doesn't support the notion that you need a lot of power to do the job. The flywheel stores enough energy to compress the hay charge and perform the flake cutoff with power to spare. However, I've seen, heard, and read it all. Some still insist on running with dull cutoff knives, too wide a gap between the knives, low pto rpm and too fast a ground speed. I even know 2 guys who didn't know there was a shear pin in the flywheel shaft and ran with the flywheel freewheeling. Yeah it spun around, but didn't contribute to the plugger charge. A 336 is generally run with an auxilliary hydraulic pump to build pressure for a kicker pan cylinder. That takes some extra hp. It also runs 100 rpm crankshaft speed while older ones run at 60 rpm (1 flake per second, 1 bale completed every 14 seconds is a good rule of haymaking). Do the math and figure out for yourself what you need. Yes, hills and extra wagons take some power, as does the A/C, music, rear video, and gps to keep you from getting lost out there. Make sure the governor is fast enough to tug the engine juice up quickly. If its slow, the jerking you all are reading about will appear. The plunger head is too light to cause such a motion.

Yes I have 2 degrees in Rocket Science, and a shirt to prove it...

AKfish · Jan 1, 2009

zzvyb6 said:
Yes, hills and extra wagons take some power, as does the A/C, music, rear video, and gps to keep you from getting lost out there. Make sure the governor is fast enough to tug the engine juice up quickly. If its slow, the jerking you all are reading about will appear. The plunger head is too light to cause such a motion.

Yes I have 2 degrees in Rocket Science, and a shirt to prove it...

Thanks flusher. Great video! Makes me want to get my own baler setup!!

And zzvyb6; I've come to appreciate your posts - and would like to see your shirt someday, too!

Sure would like to do my own hay one of these first years.. But, I'd really like to avoid buying a 100hp tractor and a $10-20K baler to get it done.

As much as I've followed the ebb and flow of the debate regarding small tractors - low hp balers vs large tractors - high hp balers (or any baler for that matter); I have yet to see any discussion or recommendations regarding the models of small balers (besides the JD336 or maybe the NH273) that anyone considering a small tractor hay operation should be keeping an eye out for!!

What models of balers should be seriously considered if you've only got 30-40 pto hp to work with and 3,500 - 4,500 lbs??

Thanks for any feedback.

AKfish

rankrank1 · Jan 1, 2009

AKfish said:
What models of balers should be seriously considered if you've only got 30-40 pto hp to work with and 3,500 - 4,500 lbs??

Thanks for any feedback.

AKfish

The smallest balers that can be purchased cheaply have a slightly smaller plunger size of 12"x16":
a) New Holland 65 (great baler that has no wood in it and shares parts with its bigger siblings).
b) Ford 520 (Parts will be extemely hard to find).

Next up in size would be balers with the standard 14"x18" plunger size:
a) John Deere 14T
b) John Deere 24T
c) New Holland 67,68,69 ("Super" models will not have wood in them so would be preferred)
d) New Holland 273
e) Some people have had luck with Massey 10,12,120,124.

FWIW - I would stick with New Holland or John Deere for the older stuff as they have the best parts support.

vsteel · Jan 2, 2009

zzvyb6 said:
The plunger head is too light to cause such a motion.

I don't know as I would agree with that. There is a lot of weight when you consider the plunger, the connecting rod and the crank for the plunger. There isn't any counter weights, then you get that spinning pretty good, that is a lot of force.

I do agree that you don't need that much HP to run a baler, but you do need some weight to keep it from rocking around because of the plunger movement.

kenstrac · Jan 2, 2009

My MF150 died while I was haying hooked up farmall super c WFE to MF12 baler did the job but no ind.pto next field used my Allis CA NFEthis worked alot better but the brakes on both were hairy

SPYDERLK · Jan 2, 2009

AKfish said:
Thanks flusher. Great video! Makes me want to get my own baler setup!!

And zzvyb6; I've come to appreciate your posts - and would like to see your shirt someday, too!

Sure would like to do my own hay one of these first years.. But, I'd really like to avoid buying a 100hp tractor and a $10-20K baler to get it done.

As much as I've followed the ebb and flow of the debate regarding small tractors - low hp balers vs large tractors - high hp balers (or any baler for that matter); I have yet to see any discussion or recommendations regarding the models of small balers (besides the JD336 or maybe the NH273) that anyone considering a small tractor hay operation should be keeping an eye out for!!

What models of balers should be seriously considered if you've only got 30-40 pto hp to work with and 3,500 - 4,500 lbs??

Thanks for any feedback.

AKfish

Heres a link to another thread where it was discussed. Apparently high capacity balers shake a lot and require a bunch of HP on even tiny windrows.

The IH37 does not, even when outputing a firm bale about every 9 or 10 seconds.
larry
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/buying-pricing-comparisons/124879-baling-compact-minimum-size-3.html

Hoosier Hay Man · Jan 2, 2009

30hp will run the smaller balers fine, but when most of the smaller balers were built a 30hp tractor had a little more weight behind it. A baler can rock a tractor pretty good with each stroke. I could run my old NH68 with a Oliver 77 or JD50 has about 26 pto hp. I use a JD 4430 with 125 ponies for my NH 315 and boy can it eat hay.

NH 68 project a few years back.

shvl73 · Jan 2, 2009

I hooked my Mahindra 2810HST (22+pto HP)to my MF124 baler and made some nice bales. It seemed to handle it well. You definitely know its back there as you can feel the plunger strokes but, its not bad. I'm a real newbie to haying and real small scale but, it worked well enough for me. If I can work out a deal with my neighbor to hay his field, I may end up getting an older 40hp+- farm tractor. I've recently seen a couple of NH65 balers for sale and was real tempted but, if my MF124 is working, why mess with it.

Thinking more about this, my place is fairly flat. The tractor seems to pull the baler around just fine. Does anyone think that there is actually the possibility of harming the tractor, pto, etc... by using the baler? It would be cheaper to get a NH 65 than add a whole other tractor to maintain.

flusher · Jan 4, 2009

Hoosier Hay Man said:
30hp will run the smaller balers fine, but when most of the smaller balers were built a 30hp tractor had a little more weight behind it. A baler can rock a tractor pretty good with each stroke. I could run my old NH68 with a Oliver 77 or JD50 has about 26 pto hp. I use a JD 4430 with 125 ponies for my NH 315 and boy can it eat hay.
NH 68 project a few years back.
]

Wow!! That's a great restoration. Congrats on excellent work.

Using that neat old Oliver 77 to pull your baler reminds me of the cover photo on Spencer Yost's book "Small Scale Haymaking" where he shows a 77 pulling an IH 46 baler. It's my haymaking bible since Yost prefers the old stuff for this kind of work and I only have about 6 acres for haying and a limited budget for this hobby of mine.

flusher · Jan 4, 2009

scott_vt said:
Good Evenin Ray,
Great video !!! Really enjoyed it ! Im providing a link of when I rebuilt my 49 Super A ! Some day it will go to one of my grandsons, but not until Im in the box !

I absolutely love that tractor, it never amazes me of what its capable of ! And its 60 years old, which is two years ilder than me, and thats old !

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/photos/84042-any-day-now-any-day.html

BTW, here is the snowplow project for the Super A !

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...low-frame-super.html?highlight=snowplow+super

Thanks for the links.

My younger son is enthralled with Farmall Cubs and wants me to get one (he lives in Roseville= yuppieville). I found this Super A while scouring craigslist for a Cub. Couldn't pass up this Super A with the mid-mount sicklebar, 3pt hitch, a rear blade and like-new rubber for $1300. I have a few 4-ft implements and a middlebuster/subsoiler left over from the days I owned a 2005 Kubota B7510HST (traded last March for a new Mahindra 5525), which is one reason I glommed onto this Super A with the 3pt hitch.

The Cub will come when it comes, although finding one with a few attachments at a reasonable price is a chore.

Hoosier Hay Man · Jan 4, 2009

flusher said:
Wow!! That's a great restoration. Congrats on excellent work.

Using that neat old Oliver 77 to pull your baler reminds me of the cover photo on Spencer Yost's book "Small Scale Haymaking" where he shows a 77 pulling an IH 46 baler. It's my haymaking bible since Yost prefers the old stuff for this kind of work and I only have about 6 acres for haying and a limited budget for this hobby of mine.

Thanks! Looking back it was alot of fun doing the restoration. I only upgraded when I ran across a NH 315 last year for only $2,000 ready to go. I think I am going to sell the 68 this spring.

Your Super "A" should be very helpful making hay. When I was a kid we used a Farmall "B" to rake and pull wagons. Here are some spescs from tractor data. Great little tractor to drive!

Well built and easy to work on.
TractorData.com Farmall Super A tractor information

I am waiting for the day I can buy a new FEL tractor. Until then I will get by with the older stuff.

DanD78 · Jan 4, 2009

For what you are doing on light wind rows and flat ground you have a good match. We use a 606 Farmall with loaded tires and have had it push the tractor down a hill if the wagon is too full. Horse power is usually not a problem unless the hay is real heavy but traction can be a problem. The picture is on some of the flat ground we bale. It sure makes good hay.

Sure is a sharp tractor...

Dan

flusher · Jan 4, 2009

Hoosier Hay Man said:
Thanks! Looking back it was alot of fun doing the restoration. I only upgraded when I ran across a NH 315 last year for only $2,000 ready to go. I think I am going to sell the 68 this spring.

Your Super "A" should be very helpful making hay. When I was a kid we used a Farmall "B" to rake and pull wagons. Here are some spescs from tractor data. Great little tractor to drive! Well built and easy to work on.
TractorData.com Farmall Super A tractor information

I am waiting for the day I can buy a new FEL tractor. Until then I will get by with the older stuff.