Sweating question.... hmmmm

[Bird]

Like the other guys, I've never had a problem with a vertical joint. I always just cleaned the parts with emery cloth, fluxed, heated, and applied the solder. I've heard of the bread idea, but never used it.

 

[Richard]

Well, since we're on the topic, what do you think of those (new to me) fittings with the solder already "inside" of them?

I saw them at HD and found them intriguing until I saw they were made in China. I decided that great idea or not, I don't trust chinese stuff enough to have buried inside my walls.

none the less, I do find the concept interesting, I guess all you do is put together & heat & done?

 

[beenthere]

I've used the bread (without the crust /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif ) and it works good. Sometimes it is near impossible to keep an errant drip from cooling off the pipe joint and connector that you are trying to solder together (usually a vertical run connected to a horizontal run that won't completely drain dry). A local plumber told me that is how they do it, and the bread pretty much disintegrates when the water comes on, except it can plug the screens in the aerators at the faucets.

But it's good to keep these water drips in mind when designing the layout and re-solder plan to avoid as much potential water in the pipes as possible.

 

[_RaT_]

Murph makes a good point I forgot to mention. I will heat the copper fitting be it a tee, 90 or cap. In doing so, the heat will be transferred to the pipe. I have the solder in hand and touch the pipe occasionally to test it for readiness. It becomes pretty obvious when the pipe is hot enough to solder as the color of the flux indicatesd it well. I do a quick swipe to about 2/3 of the pipe right at the point that it goes into the fitting, pull the heat off and in about 2 seconds have a solid connection. If I question whether it was solid, I will reheat a little, swipe some flux back to the joint and give it a dab more solder.

 

[thcri]

The idea is a good one. Can't say much about it being made in China but most manufactures of heating and air conditioning coils use them fittings on return bends. They use sil-phos instead of soft solder but the idea is the same. They can solder over a 1,000 joints all at once in a large oven. The percentage of leaks is so minute they basically can't even record it. Again cleanliness is crucial.

murph

oh by the way, the soft solder ones I would not use either, but the sil-phos ones I would not have a problem.

murph again

 

[Bird]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( fittings with the solder already "inside" )</font>

No experience at all, therefore, no valid opinion, but I'd be a little reluctant to use them since I've always had good luck the old way.

Incidentally, for over 10 years, I had a Spitfire propane torch, made to go on the little one pound bottles, but I had an adapter, 10' hose, and used a 20 pound bottle. The manufacturer claimed you could solder joints with water in the pipe with it, because it got so hot, and they were right. That's one reason I never used the bread method because a little water dripping never kept it from sealing good. With that torch, you simply applied the heat 5 seconds and then applied the solder. And when that torch finally broke, I was never able to find another one like it; had to go with a Weller. The Weller was actually quite satisfactory, but just not up to the Spitfire quality.

 

[plumboy]

The limit of temp for torches basicaly boils down to the type of gas you burn.The 2 probs with sweating with water in lines is first the water keeps it from getting hot enough and second the steam blows pin holes in the joint if the pressure cant escape.Capillary attraction works just as good verticle,horizontal,and inverted.

 

[EastTexFrank]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> I've heard of the bread idea, but never used it. </font> )</font>

I saw a plumber use it when we lived in Dallas. He stuffed enough bread in the pipe to make a decent sized sandwich and I don't know what type of bread he used, must have been one of those 7-grain loaves, but I had a heck of a time clearing those seeds/grains out of the shower head. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sometimes the old methods are the best methods.

 

[kenmac]

I also saw those new pre soldered fittings at H.D. never saw them before the other day. I haven't used these fittings & haven't talked to anyone that has. Interesting to know if they work or not ./forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Freds]

I've repaired/replaced a lot of copper in this old farmhouse and always make sure I have some fresh bread on hand. Open all the faucets and make sure the lowest one is open so the system drains, make a couple dough balls out of the center of the slice like when you used to fish for sunnies in the local pond, shove them finger length deep in both pipes on either side of your joint and sweat away. It also helps immensly to have a good hot soldering tip and not one of those Bernzomatic jobbies. You don't need Mapp gas, but you need a tip that burns hot, especially if the pipe is larger than 1/2".
I tried to turn on the water once to see if it would push the bread through, but it didn't. I always heat the pipe where the bread is and toast it, then it will push through and clog your screens /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Vertical joints will alway drip a little solder. Keep a wet rag on hand and wipe it right away if you want the joint to look pretty.