srs
Veteran Member
Bruce, what about talking to a local excavator who has a large bulldozer to get his opinion and estimate to cut switchbacks in for you?
Switchback trail down a hill, suggestions wanted
- Thread starter BruceWard
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Just about to start the house at the top of the hill.
The tractor drove down a neighborhood boat ramp and about 1200' along the shoreline to get there. I debated winching it down the hill but decided not to. The silt at the bottom is so soft that it sunk up to the axles the first time I tried to push a log. Fortunately backhoes are pretty good at getting unstuck. The water had been down for 2 months and I was hoping to be able to work on the lake bed.
tommu56
Elite Member
some thing like this shouldn't be a problem with a good operator
tom
Obed
Elite Member
Bruce,
There have been some good suggestions already. I would like to build some trails similar to what you are describing. In my case the trails would be for mountain biking but the concepts are exactly the same. I attended a weekend course sponsored by the International Mountain Bicycling Association (IMBA) about how to build sustainable trails. My advice would be to take it slow and do your homework before you hire anyone.
The type of trail you want to build has some very specialized requirements that most dozer and excavator operators don't understand. If you don't build this trail correctly, water and vehicle wear will destroy the trail in an amazingly short amount of time. I have a neighbor who had a dozer operator build an ATV trail down a steep slope. The trail ended up so treacherous that my neighbor won't drive his ATV down it. The dozer operator was not incompetent; he just didn't have experience at building ATV trails on a steep wooded hillside.
A good online guide for trail construction can be found here.
Also, here is an outstanding resource that would well be worth your time to look at before starting this project. I have this book; it was put out by the IMBA.
The IMBA has some online tips for trailbuilding located here. Look at the related links at the right side of the page under Trail Building and Design. One particularly useful page is called Designing and Building Sustainable Trails that you will want to check out. A good concise trail construction guide with drawings is located here.
There is some conflicting advice in this thread regarding how to slope the trail. IMBA says you should use "Outslope" meaning that the trail will be sloped so that water runs off the trail down the hill, not down the trail or toward the "bench" cut into the hill. I have a road that was cut so that it was "Insloped". That road is now unusable because water has eroded 3 foot deep trenches running down the road.
Also, building switchbacks is a very technical skill. Most dozer and excavator operators don't know how to build one. If you don't do it well, you will end up with a turn that will either erode to the point of being unusable or will be hazardous/dangerous to drive an ATV around. The safest, most sustainable (i.e. doesn't erode) switchback design is called a Rolling Crown Swithback. Since your grade is more than 7%, you don't want your turns to be "Climbing Turns". You will want Rolling Crown Swithcbacks. However, if you talk to most excavators about these turns, they will have no idea what you're talking about and you'll end up with climbing turns that may be very difficult for an ATV to traverse.
Lastly, trailbuilders use specialized equipment that works on steep slopes for narrow trails. Some examples can be seen here. You would be best off hiring someone who specializes in building trails, not roads. You can start looking for contractors here.
Good luck with your project. When you start, please post pictures!
Obed
There have been some good suggestions already. I would like to build some trails similar to what you are describing. In my case the trails would be for mountain biking but the concepts are exactly the same. I attended a weekend course sponsored by the International Mountain Bicycling Association (IMBA) about how to build sustainable trails. My advice would be to take it slow and do your homework before you hire anyone.
The type of trail you want to build has some very specialized requirements that most dozer and excavator operators don't understand. If you don't build this trail correctly, water and vehicle wear will destroy the trail in an amazingly short amount of time. I have a neighbor who had a dozer operator build an ATV trail down a steep slope. The trail ended up so treacherous that my neighbor won't drive his ATV down it. The dozer operator was not incompetent; he just didn't have experience at building ATV trails on a steep wooded hillside.
A good online guide for trail construction can be found here.
Also, here is an outstanding resource that would well be worth your time to look at before starting this project. I have this book; it was put out by the IMBA.
The IMBA has some online tips for trailbuilding located here. Look at the related links at the right side of the page under Trail Building and Design. One particularly useful page is called Designing and Building Sustainable Trails that you will want to check out. A good concise trail construction guide with drawings is located here.
There is some conflicting advice in this thread regarding how to slope the trail. IMBA says you should use "Outslope" meaning that the trail will be sloped so that water runs off the trail down the hill, not down the trail or toward the "bench" cut into the hill. I have a road that was cut so that it was "Insloped". That road is now unusable because water has eroded 3 foot deep trenches running down the road.
Also, building switchbacks is a very technical skill. Most dozer and excavator operators don't know how to build one. If you don't do it well, you will end up with a turn that will either erode to the point of being unusable or will be hazardous/dangerous to drive an ATV around. The safest, most sustainable (i.e. doesn't erode) switchback design is called a Rolling Crown Swithback. Since your grade is more than 7%, you don't want your turns to be "Climbing Turns". You will want Rolling Crown Swithcbacks. However, if you talk to most excavators about these turns, they will have no idea what you're talking about and you'll end up with climbing turns that may be very difficult for an ATV to traverse.
Lastly, trailbuilders use specialized equipment that works on steep slopes for narrow trails. Some examples can be seen here. You would be best off hiring someone who specializes in building trails, not roads. You can start looking for contractors here.
Good luck with your project. When you start, please post pictures!
Obed
Last edited:
charlz
Elite Member
Obed beat me to posting the links :thumbsup:
If you have a genuine trail contractor in your area I would at least ask them to look at it.
I ride dirtbikes and participate in trail maintenance and trail building activities. We mostly build climbing turns because we are under power and with an outside 'super' (berm) you can lay the bike over and power through. Other places the switchbacks are so tight they are almost impossible to ride around without getting off and repositioning your bike. The steeper the hill the more excavation required to make wide switchbacks, more excavation you do the more likely you are to have unstable upslope, the more unstable upslope the more likely you are to have to build retaining walls etc. When you are doing all of it by hand it can be a daunting process to build just one nice switchback, and you might have 10+ on a particularly long, steep climb.
If you have a genuine trail contractor in your area I would at least ask them to look at it.
I ride dirtbikes and participate in trail maintenance and trail building activities. We mostly build climbing turns because we are under power and with an outside 'super' (berm) you can lay the bike over and power through. Other places the switchbacks are so tight they are almost impossible to ride around without getting off and repositioning your bike. The steeper the hill the more excavation required to make wide switchbacks, more excavation you do the more likely you are to have unstable upslope, the more unstable upslope the more likely you are to have to build retaining walls etc. When you are doing all of it by hand it can be a daunting process to build just one nice switchback, and you might have 10+ on a particularly long, steep climb.
Obed, thanks for all the great info and links. I will read through all of them before I even think about getting started.
I especially liked the link showing the toro dingos and similar walk behind equipment at work. They would be great for building a walking trail while disturbing a minimal amount of the hillside.
If I opt for a ATV/UTV trail it will be wide enough that a 6000 pound excavator or a small skidsteer could work. One of my biggest concerns is what to do with the excavated material (spoils). I think I may have a process of using a UTV with a dump bed or skidsteer behind the excavator placing the spoils into the vehicle behind it which would transport the spoils to another location to dump.
I contacted a local trailbuilder who says he has 15 years of experience but have yet to hear back from him.
I especially liked the link showing the toro dingos and similar walk behind equipment at work. They would be great for building a walking trail while disturbing a minimal amount of the hillside.
If I opt for a ATV/UTV trail it will be wide enough that a 6000 pound excavator or a small skidsteer could work. One of my biggest concerns is what to do with the excavated material (spoils). I think I may have a process of using a UTV with a dump bed or skidsteer behind the excavator placing the spoils into the vehicle behind it which would transport the spoils to another location to dump.
I contacted a local trailbuilder who says he has 15 years of experience but have yet to hear back from him.
Ken45101
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You dump it on the downside. That accounts for about half of the new trail width and saves a lot of digging and reduces the uphill wall.
Of course it needs to be compacted well. That's where the heavier equipment is very useful.
Ken
Ken45101
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- Kubota M5040, M9540, B21 TLB, B2710, RTV900, JD 325 Skid steer, KX-121-3 mini excavator
I am no expert, but I think it will be stable in most situations if done properly. Most forest service roads are built that way.
Ken