syn oil not good for older engines

   / syn oil not good for older engines #31  
Very true, but you get what you pay for. Example, You can have a 286 computer that has worked for years and still does or do you want something better. Do you want a slow dialup modem for internet at $24 per month or get Broadband for $42 at 50 times faster? Do you want to drive a 1960 car that is all paid off or a new 2004 car for 40K? Both work fine from Pt A to Pt B fine but price is a huge issue. One is $0 per month and one is about $800. It is not worth it for some or there budget does not warrant it. Or some do the, "it is not broken deal".

Sure petro has worked for over xxx years. If it was all hype why are billion-dollar corporations ie (for Ford, GM, Mercedes, etc) switching some fluids to synthetic? Why do some cars, SUV's come from the factory and some manufactures ONLY recommend synthetic in their cars (i.e. My Wife's ML-420). It is not hype in these synthetic oils only cars. Plus these oils are mostly in higher priced cars. The person buying a Neon will not care about synthetics. Look at the value of the car. Not enough to warrant it for most.

Most people hate change and they will do anything to not change. Also I am VERY sure it is also a price issue. They see the price (3 to 4X) more and say ya right, for what. They also see in their wonderful car manual that only recommends, not stating you must adhere to, drain the oil at xx interval not matter if synthetic. Most manufactures will not say it is ok to drain longer with synthetic since it opens a can of worms. You will have all people from being very smart to morons doing it. Again, it only takes a few to ruin it. Plus not all the cars are the same. Too my variables for the common person to understand. Not saying they are dumb, but how many people even do oil changes? People do not want to be bothered with oil changes. They want to drive period. Hell, how many people can even change a tire? I know my wife can't or won't. But I figure for the 40K you spent on the car, you better know how or have the cell with you. She figures that she spent the money for the car let the roadside people fix it.

I could talk oil test results till blue in the face on some petro vs synthetic oils, but if the person has it in the head that old petro has worked for years, they will not change. Even if the results prove it they will not. If people like doing oil changes every 3K miles so be it. I have been better things to do with my time. I am not saying synthetic are the "cure all" but I can go much longer, synthetics have better base stocks and additive packages and the test results come back pretty darn good. Plus unless people can see the difference they do not get it. I could have two oils in front of me and they look good, not to dark or light. So they "look" ok they must be. But using the oil tests from their sample, the results show which is still good or not. Most people only see synthic as better when you do the "oil in the freezer" test.


I know for me living in th N.E. They work great, from below zero temps to over 100 degress in the summer.
 
   / syn oil not good for older engines
  • Thread Starter
#32  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Either way, the manufacturer will tell you what they have tested the product to work with and tell you to use what they have tested against. To expect them to go back and retest all the older engines they may not even have against syn oil is a bit niave.
)</font>

I'm not being niave at all. I'm taking them ( mobil ) at their word. And as you point out, it is probably a statement they made out of a liability perspective. They either had no test data for an older engine.. or new that there was the possibility of a problem with an older engine , in certain circumstances, so they advised against it.

Soundguy
 
   / syn oil not good for older engines
  • Thread Starter
#33  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If it was all hype )</font>

No one said.. -ALL- hype.. just some hype.. as with any product being pushed on the market these days.

If it's an application thet benefits from the new technology.. why not use it.. that's why new car manufacturers are going with it in part.

As for the older oils working. They do.

Looking at two of our mack trucks. one was bought with 800,000 miles on it.. we ran it to over a mil before selling it... never rebuilt it.. though it did have injector pump, air pump, and a rear, rear diffy replaced.

A second truck we had from new.. at 500k we had it in for service, and they pulled a main to check for wear... -0- wear was found at 500k.

Everyone knows these big diesel trucks got tons of milage.. but that's pretty decent for ground up dino's huh...

Seems to me it has more to do with preventitive maintenance, and quality and tolerances of the machinery and manufacturing process.. and less to do with the lubricants altogether..

( we still have that truck that was check at 500k.. that was about 8 years ago... still no copper or chrome showing up in the oil anylisis.. ) We are using bulk fina oil products.
Soundguy
 
   / syn oil not good for older engines #34  
I have to agree with you, I have gotten well over 100K on most of the vehicles I have owned without synthetics. current Subaru 198K( Still going/Castrol ), Plymouth Volare slant six 245K(Valvoline), Lincoln Town car 168k (still counting/ Castrol),
etc, No internal engine problems on any of those engines. The slant six never even had the head or oil pan off.

Maybe one reason the auto manufacturers are recommending synthetics is because they are extending their warranty periods and want the engine to make it thru the warranty period. Or maybe they are making cheaper/poorer grade engines and need the added protection of synthetic oil to keep them going /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
   / syn oil not good for older engines #35  
true, does it have some, yes..all product do.

I would not say synthetics are new. They have been around a long time. It is new to some people.

Also I would also look at more then copper and chrome in oil tests on the big guys. If you have a turbo I would also look at some soot and Al. Also I would personaly look at Nitration, Tin, Iron, Moly, lead etc. Copper is in seals or busings I think. Also I would keep and eye on Boron & Sodium for coolant interval leaks.

The larger trucks are better, it seems, since there sumps are larger, longer driving spands at constant velocities, oil filters (some with by pass) etc.

I know my wifes last two cars were a Honda and Toyota. Both had petro in in them and yes, they are still going. Both sold at over 120K miles. Just don't pull the dip sticks and look at the varnish and never mind the endless leaks and such. We were doing oil changes before the 7,500 mile mark too. I do not think some petro oils can handle the higher temps. Does it work, sure, but my cars and motorcycle have zero varish and the results are good with a better oil.
 
   / syn oil not good for older engines #36  
Soundguy, My earlier post was not meant to be sarcastic , but rather a cheap shot at Mobil for their disclaimer. It's just my off color sence of humor! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif As for the guy with the old Ford, I would think that the oil he uses would be the least of this problems! Oops..there I go again ! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
   / syn oil not good for older engines #37  
I'm not sure the "cheaper engine" theory holds true in every case. The Corvette LT series engines have had Mobil 1 in their pans for years, right off the line. As more and more lighter alloys are being used for weight reduction, better lubricants are needed. In a few years all fluids will be 100k mile sealed systems ie; coolant, trans.,crankcase. We're seeing some of it now. All you'll need to do is change the filters. I can't say I like it, but it's reality.
 
   / syn oil not good for older engines #38  
Dass,
I am not sure cheaper was the correct word for what I intended to convey. Less durable might have been a better choice of words. I have also noticed more gaskets with built in O rings to compensate for poor machining tolerances.
 
   / syn oil not good for older engines #39  
I've seen a lot more O-rings being used in our diesel engines in buses where I work. Some of this is to cut assembly time. But the down time is increasing too, so there is a lot in what you've said.
 
   / syn oil not good for older engines #40  
Dass,
Every oil leak I have found on my vehicles in the past few years has been due to dried out/hard O rings. The ones from Japan/ eastern area seem to be the worst.
 

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