syn oil not good for older engines

Dargo · Oct 19, 2004

Hey, look on the bright side...you don't need undercoating! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I, unfortuantely, owned a 1985 V65 Magna Honda in 1986. It was supposed to be the "fastest production bike" at the time. I think zero to 60 in like 2 seconds and top speed of 150mph. Even more unfortunately, I can tell you that mine would only run 148mph, and at that speed developed an unrecoverable high speed wobble. Twenty years of riding and racing bikes only enabled me to get it into the median before going down. Yeah, that one left a mark! Just curious, did the '82 Magna suffer from the same problem? I know this is sort of off of the subject, but that incident sort of sticks with me, if you know what I mean. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

cp1969 · Oct 19, 2004

I know exactly what you mean. I had a friend's Harley Sportster start to shake on me at about 90mph, and it seemed like it took an ETERNITY to get that thing slowed down without getting thrown off. The only other episode I had on a motorcyle that seemed to take longer was the time the gas tank caught fire (again, on a Harley, a knucklehead).

The old Magnas all suffer from that headshake problem, from what I hear, but it seems like the V65's are worse. I don't know if the V65's had different front end geometry or if the V45's just weren't fast enough to get it into the shaking mode. There is some kind of beefed up front fork brace that is supposed to fix it. It isn't really a headshake problem per se, but I can't think of anything else to call it. It is nevertheless a very real problem on the old Magnas that people should be aware of when buying one.

Mine has the 80mph speedo so I don't know how fast it will go (it will do 80 in 2nd or 3rd gear) but I doubt that it will make much over 125-130, maybe not even that. 80 hp (when new) isn't going to propel it much faster.

Sorry for being off topic.

lynxpilot · Oct 19, 2004

( Hey, look on the bright side...you don't need undercoating! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I, unfortuantely, owned a 1985 V65 Magna Honda in 1986. It was supposed to be the "fastest production bike" at the time. I think zero to 60 in like 2 seconds and top speed of 150mph. Even more unfortunately, I can tell you that mine would only run 148mph, and at that speed developed an unrecoverable high speed wobble. Twenty years of riding and racing bikes only enabled me to get it into the median before going down. Yeah, that one left a mark! Just curious, did the '82 Magna suffer from the same problem? I know this is sort of off of the subject, but that incident sort of sticks with me, if you know what I mean. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif )

I had an '83 Magna that I bought in '85. It was an insurance total that was rebuilt. I lived 27 miles from work and if I wanted overtime on Saturday, I had to be there 6:00 a.m. sharp or wouldn't be allowed to work the next Saturday overtime. I made that trip in about 15 minutes one time. Magna had the big front tire that had that real nice high speed wobble. V-Max was supposed to be quicker at the time. Apparently it was hard to get insurance for (??? don't know why ???). I can't believe I made it through those days without ever getting caught doing 120 on a Saturday morning on a Detroit expressway or that I'm still alive.

Boondox · Oct 20, 2004

Hmmm, but could you use it if you needed some to get past old seals, or would the seals be damaged by the leakage?

Here's the situation. I have a sticky exhaust valve in the 315 Poly V8 of my 1957 Dodge truck. Before tearing off the heads and having them redone, some old timers suggested adding kero to the fuel and oil...the idea being that it would leak past the seals and sometimes it was enough to free up a sticky valve. But would Mobil One do the same thing..?

Pete

Bird · Oct 20, 2004

( developed an unrecoverable high speed wobble )

I don't know whether you're aware of it or not, but back in the '80s a number of police officers around the country crashed their Kawasaki police bikes for that reason. And several of them sued Kawasaki. There was quite an investigation by many different companies trying to learn: (1) the cause of the wobble, and (2) how to recover if it happened. Some of the findings or conclusions were:
1) on bikes with air adjustable front forks, the air pressure naturally needed to be the same on both legs of the fork. If they were connected together, no problem, but a lot of bikes had separate valve stems for each side and because of the small volume of air and the fact that you lose a little everytime you put a tire gauge on or take it off, it could be difficult to balance that pressure.
2) air pressure in the front tire should always be less than that in the rear tire.
3) when the wobble starts, as the bike tends to turn slightly to one side, there's a natural tendency on the part of the rider to turn the handlebars the opposite direction to correct it, but in reality it happens so fast that by the time the rider tries to correct it, the bike has already started back the other direction, so the rider is always over-correcting.
4) the weight of the rider and weight distribution have a considerable effect. The lighter the rider and farther back he or she is sitting, the worse the problem.

The Dunlop tire company produced a very interesting film during their tests in England. They had two riders; one heavier than the other and guys with a lot more nerve than I have. On the same bike, at the same speed, the bike would develop an unbelievably violent wobble with the smaller guy, so much so that he could not keep his feet on the pegs; they were slung outward. But he did nothing, made no attempt to correct the bike, just let off the throttle, and as he slowed, the wobble went away. The bike did not develop that wobble with the heavier rider. They also tried it with both men on the bike; no wobble, no matter which one was driving. And then they found that when the wobble developed with the smaller guy, he could also make it go away simply by leaning as far forward as possible over the handlebars; i.e., shifting weight forward.

Just a bit of trivia from my days as fleet manager /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Egon · Oct 20, 2004

Please Pete, don't add any kero to the oil in that lovely old engine.

Have you tried fuel conditioner in the fuel?

Egon

Boondox · Oct 20, 2004

( Please Pete, don't add any kero to the oil in that lovely old engine.

Have you tried fuel conditioner in the fuel?

Egon )

Yup. Ran it for an hour after rebuilding the leaky carb last Sunday and it seemed to be smoothing out a bit. Not sure if it was my imagination or wishful thinking, though. I have a spare set of heads, but would rather avoid the cost of rebuilding, especially this time of year with all the pre-winter chores still on the list!

The old carb didn't have a accelerator pump. By combining parts from the original Stromberg and a newer model not only did I fix the leak, but the accelerator pump really added some ooomph to the old boy! Oh, and my manual choke works now! No more adjusting it by leaning over the engine!

The truck doesn't have a working kickdown, but I can see a lever on the driver's side of the TorqueFlite tranny just below where the gas pedal comes thru the firewall. The lever has a hole at the top, so it looks like there was a linkage there at one time. Trying to figure out if that's the kickdown lever.

Any harm in jury-rigging a bar to that lever and pushing/pulling as I drive down the road to see what happens? Is there a better way to test its function?

Pete

Soundguy · Oct 20, 2004

( Back in the good ole days with ancient straight grade oil stocks, no engines had any kind of oil filter either..... they sure were primitive back then replacing blown engines all the time )

You joking? I know some engine manufacturers didn't get to oil filters till the 30's and 40's.. but at least the ones i'm familiar with.. like ford.. did so at least in 39 on their tractor engines... All 3 of my old fords are still on oem parts and bearings... no rebuild yet.

The other board I frequent is mostly about antique tractors.. I've never heard discussions about masses of engine rebuilds.. just 'normal wear' rebuilds.. etc.

Soundguy

SkyPup · Oct 20, 2004

No joke, how did they get rid of all the sludge, just blow it through the rings?

The early oil filters (some containg just steel wool or waste cotton) were all by-pass units only filtering 10% of the oil each pass at best, full flow filter did not come until much later.

Of course, they didn't have the internet or cell phones back then either to try to figure out what they were doing wrong. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

slowrev · Oct 20, 2004

"The early oil filters (some containg just steel wool or waste cotton) were all by-pass units only filtering 10% of the oil each pass at best, full flow filter did not come until much later. "

MId to late 50's Chevys had firewall mounted oil filters. Were the pleated paper types. The only car I have owned without an oil filter was a 1971 VW beetle, just had a screen. All US built cars had oil filters at that time.

"Of course, they didn't have the internet or cell phones back then either to try to figure out what they were doing wrong."

The internet can be a valuable resource, however remember the internet is just like a sheet of paper it does not care what you put on it.

I still do not have a cell phone, and like it that way /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Even though I have worked in the "bleeding edge" of the Telecom industry for over 20 yrs....I like to be unreachable sometimes /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Like when concentrating on troubleshooting some code...Or out in the woods...Wife has a cell phone for when she is on the road.

Ben