synthetic oil help generator start better???

[Copperhead]

Yeah, that is about it. You have adherents on both sides that will not budge a bit. Brand and type loyalty with oils is as bad as any sports team fan kind of thing. And one thing that always seems to stand out... every example folks will give about something is of limited scope and anecdotal. I have read many studies done by industry folks and have come to more general consensus regarding oils. And my focus seems to be more concerned with the additive package a oil has in it than it does whether it is synthetic or conventional. A conventional with a very strong add pack to me is preferable to a synthetic with a mediocre add pack. And I go thru far too much oil in a year with my business needs to play the boutique oil game. I do not park my mind in any specific oil type camp. There are so many fine oils around that everyone can have a choice they like and stick with it.

All of this banter is fun, but the end results are what counts. When I can take diesel engines to well over 1 million miles without a major repair on conventional oil, it is a harder sell to convince me that a higher priced synthetic would have done me better. But on the flip side, there are some applications where I like a synthetic, especially trans fluids and gear lubes. I use both synthetics and conventional oils, depending on the application. My portable generator starts just fine in below 0F territory on a conventional or a synthetic. I have seen no appreciable difference. I do use a synthetic in it now, but my primary motivation is I do not have to worry about being meticulous on the service interval with it.

 

[kenmac]

The two things that matter most for this scenario are, viscosity, and Lubricity.

The differences in those numbers are not sufficient enough, to make a noticeable difference at a "normal" temperature. (I used 0 F). That is based on the actual published numbers. Not my opinion.

It does matter what year it is, you may have been right 35 years ago. But, improvements in oil technology in last 20 years, have actually applied to both products.

Most of the "perceived" difference, is based on what people believe from 35 years ago, not the current reality.

I used one of the most common synthetic oils, (Mobil 1), and one of the most common mineral oils, (Valvoline) in this example.

Show me your data, proving the "substantial differences" you mentioned are real, and not your opinion.

Again, I am not saying the synthetic oil is not better. It is, in extreme conditions, and can go for longer intervals.

But, in this example, there will be no noticeable difference. Only an imagined one. It's called the placebo effect.

Do you have data showing where your dino is equal to a quality synthetic ?? If you have,, post it.. You say your engines don't start any better with dino than synthetic.. I say my engines start better with synthetic.. I guess that's your data and I gave you mine... 35 years later and oil that comes out of the ground is the same.. It's no different... they still have filter it a zillion times just to be able to get it up to par for basic use... Synthetic oil is clean from the start... It doesn't have to be filtered a zillion times, .. Again ,, those convinced against their will ,, are of the same opinion still... Nothing I say is going to sway you ,and nothing you say is going to sway me.. we will always be in a stale mate

 

[ray66v]

Do you have data showing where your dino is equal to a quality synthetic ?? If you have,, post it.. You say your engines don't start any better with dino than synthetic.. I say my engines start better with synthetic.. I guess that's your data and I gave you mine... 35 years later and oil that comes out of the ground is the same.. It's no different... they still have filter it a zillion times just to be able to get it up to par for basic use... Synthetic oil is clean from the start... It doesn't have to be filtered a zillion times, .. Again ,, those convinced against their will ,, are of the same opinion still... Nothing I say is going to sway you ,and nothing you say is going to sway me.. we will always be in a stale mate

I have.

If the viscosity, and lubricity numbers are similar, the effect will be also.

Sorry, you can't accept that. No sense in going any further, if reality doesn't matter.

 

[kenmac]

viscosity for synthetic & dino are the same up to a point (out of the container) .. Neither will not remain stable.. A dino's viscosity will vary a lot more than synthetic. Sorry, You can't accept that...I agree,, You are correct.. no sense in going any further..

 

[MossRoad]

Since this thread is about cold weather starting, not about which oil will make an engine last longer....

here's a video from Mobil showing Mobil1 full synthetic and a competitor semi-synthetic both taken down to -40F and then poured. Pretty interesting.

 

[Thomabear]

Yeah, that is about it. You have adherents on both sides that will not budge a bit. Brand and type loyalty with oils is as bad as any sports team fan kind of thing. And one thing that always seems to stand out... every example folks will give about something is of limited scope and anecdotal. I have read many studies done by industry folks and have come to more general consensus regarding oils. And my focus seems to be more concerned with the additive package a oil has in it than it does whether it is synthetic or conventional. A conventional with a very strong add pack to me is preferable to a synthetic with a mediocre add pack. And I go thru far too much oil in a year with my business needs to play the boutique oil game. I do not park my mind in any specific oil type camp. There are so many fine oils around that everyone can have a choice they like and stick with it. All of this banter is fun, but the end results are what counts. When I can take diesel engines to well over 1 million miles without a major repair on conventional oil, it is a harder sell to convince me that a higher priced synthetic would have done me better. But on the flip side, there are some applications where I like a synthetic, especially trans fluids and gear lubes. I use both synthetics and conventional oils, depending on the application. My portable generator starts just fine in below 0F territory on a conventional or a synthetic. I have seen no appreciable difference. I do use a synthetic in it now, but my primary motivation is I do not have to worry about being meticulous on the service interval with it.

Well said copperhead...
While I also occasionally run synthetic in transmissions and differentials I have never ran it in ANY engine I own. Some folks ask for hard evidence of one over the other, viscosity this, blah-blah-blah that, but my hard evidence is the simple fact that I have never experienced a lube related failure in any engine ever. On a similar note just go to any auto shop and ask how often they see a burned engine in which the blame went to conventional oil because synthetic wasn't used. I promise you will never hear that answer. If an engine fails it is usually due to neglect or the failure of hard parts. Sure synthetic is probably a better lube but is it a needed better is the question.... There may be acceptions to where some in the bitter north may choose synthetic and that's perfectly understandable but for the vast majority it would be like installing 1/2" grade 8 bolts to hang a 2 pound light fixture.

 

[ray66v]

Since this thread is about cold weather starting, not about which oil will make an engine last longer....

here's a video from Mobil showing Mobil1 full synthetic and a competitor semi-synthetic both taken down to -40F and then poured. Pretty interesting.

If one oil is at 2 degrees warmer than it's pour point, (the Mobil1 5w-30 is -42C), and the other is say, 2-4 degrees colder than it's pour point, one is going to pour, and the other isn't.

It shouldn't surprise anyone.

Let's see the Mobil1, at 4 degrees colder now. Spoiler alert: It won't pour either.

 

[MossRoad]

Conventional vs synthetic pour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVS_avfoO3k

Which one do you think pumps better through your oil pump and oil passages when cold? Its that initial lack of lubrication at cold startup that concerns most folks (that are concerned about this of course :laughing.

 

[DarkBlack]

Conventional vs synthetic pour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVS_avfoO3k

Which one do you think pumps better through your oil pump and oil passages when cold? Its that initial lack of lubrication at cold startup that concerns most folks (that are concerned about this of course :laughing.

Stupid video/
Doesn't show viscosities, temperatures, nothing... just plan useless video.
He also says in the video synthetic doesn't thicken as it gets colder. That's also totally wrong.

 

[DarkBlack]

The more I read, the more I don't know! :laughing:

Here's a good read from Bob is the oil guy....
Motor Oil 103 - Bob is the Oil Guy - Bob is the Oil Guy

Good read! A quote "A synthetic oil that is labeled as 10W-30 is less honey like as a mineral based 10W-30 motor oil at startup."
Read the whole thing. I always thought 'same number means same thing'. Not so much anymore.

Interesting site, but a lot of less than factual, and plain incorrect statements made.
Just looking at that single page you referenced:

"A synthetic oil that is labeled as 10W-30 is less honey like as a mineral based 10W-30 motor oil at startup. They both have a thickness of 10 at normal operating temperatures. At 75ｰF the synthetic is not as thick. At 32ｰF the difference between the two is even greater. At 0ｰF the mineral oil is useless yet the synthetic works fairly well. Just keep the RPM to a minimum.
At temperatures below zero you will not be able to start your car with mineral oils while the synthetic oils may be used to -40ｰ or -50ｰF. "

I just had a night of -14F here, and my vehicles with dino 5w-30, and 5w-20 started fine. I had cars running straight 30 weight years ago that started at 0F. So the above statement is wrong.



"Oils are so thick that the normal method of viscosity measurement is not possible. Instead we measure if the oil can even be pumped or poured. Again, we are only discussing a single category of oil, the multi-grade 10W-30 API / SAE grade.
I took an except from the web about Mobil 1 oils. They compared a 5W-30 synthetic Mobil 1 oil to a mineral based 10W-30 and a 10W-40 in ice cold conditions. The engine turned over at 152 RPM with the synthetic 5W-30 Mobil 1. The 10W-30 and 10W-40 mineral oils turned over at 45 and 32 RPM respectively. Neither of those engines started."

What kind of absurd B.S. cold weather oil study would compare a synthetic 5W to a conventional 10W??? That's marketing for you, always preying on the weak minded. 5W-30 is one of the most common dino oils, and would surely be used by any 'real' study done to make it real...