Synthetic Oil

[kenmac]

I maintain a fleet of commercial use ZTR's. 90% have Kawasaki and 75% are Ferris. They have 24 to 37 HP motors and none required synthetic. We run straight dyno SAE 30 in all them. Change them out once a year.

Chris

In the above post and in another thread,,Gary says his requires synthetic. I was trying to find out if his engine was different. Only difference I found was his is 24 and mine is 21.5 and, even thought I use synthetic,, my manual doesn't even mention it

 

[3930dave]

Gary, in a previous thread ,I asked what Kawasaki motor you had. Looking at the # you posted , your engine is a 24 HP. Mine is a 21.5 HP. that may be the difference in yours requiring synthetic. All my manual list about oil is, temp range from about 40 * to about 95* SAE 30 from form 85* over 100* SAE 40. It also list -20* to 32* 5w20 0* to 95* 10w 30. Using multi grade oils will increase consumption check oil often when using them......No mention of synthetic. I do use synthetic, but per manual,,,, Not required

Up here it is a trade-off..... an air cooled engine may use a bit more oil with 5W30 in the Summer, but I wouldn't want to try and start my generator in the Winter with straight 30 in it !

Decent synth in air-cooled should have a bit less burn off at high ambient temperatures - helpful in Commercial operation, or for people that rarely check oil level.

Rgds, D.

 

[DeereMann]

This is funny - kinda like watching old married couple debate who left the toilet seat up or down - always gets an arguement!

Yes, the key parameters are the life of the oil filter (esp. most being organic cellulosic fiber that breaks down, i.e. not synthetic), and how much dirt is ingested into the engine. The engine air filter is a primary guilty culprit in oil life!

In fact, being an **** engineer (as if there's any other kind), and former lube service rep., I conducted UOA on myself both for fun & to understand the limitations of engines better. For my particular vehicle (automotive gasoline engine) & driving habits (mostly highway constant speed), I found my UOA limit was around 14,000 miles using Mobil 1 & Fram Oil Filter. It was pretty consistent.

Guess what the limiting factor was? Excessive silicon (dirt) ingestion past the air filter! And I didn't drive in very dirty country either.

So.............change per manufacturer's recommendations, not per oil company advertisements of maximum possible OCI in a laboratory! Also because engine/vehicle makers have become much more realistic about necessary OCI's, and with better quality oils & diagnostics.

Over and out for now..........

P.S. - I use 15W-50 synthetic in air-cooled engines as their internal tolerances have to be wider for the much higher thermal expansion & contraction cycling they get. They don't like thinner oils of any variety.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Gary, in a previous thread ,I asked what Kawasaki motor you had. Looking at the # you posted , your engine is a 24 HP. Mine is a 21.5 HP. that may be the difference in yours requiring synthetic. All my manual list about oil is, temp range from about 40 * to about 95* SAE 30 from form 85* over 100* SAE 40. It also list -20* to 32* 5w20 0* to 95* 10w 30. Using multi grade oils will increase consumption check oil often when using them......No mention of synthetic. I do use synthetic, but per manual,,,, Not required

My engine is the FS691V Kawasaki in my Ferris mower. I was curious when everyone says their manual doesn't call for synthetic so I just went back for a review of the manual (online) and it says nothing about using synthetic just the weights and the API class of SG, SH, SJ or SL. It does say that using multi-weight oils may cause more oil consumption than a single weight and the recommendation is for 10W-40 or SAE 40 for my temperature ranges ( 80- 100F).

The dealer mechanic is who cautioned me to use ONLY full synthetic oil and Mobil One full synthetic is the only one I found(at Walmart) with an SL rating. The first oil change (no filter change) is at 8 hours which is where I put in the Mobile 1 full synthetic. It is only a quart so not a big deal to use the synthetic oil as recommended by the dealer even though the manual doesn't state that. I guess I missed that when looking at the oil recommendation and just went by the dealers mechanic warning. He was very adamant and mentioned it several times so I figured it must be important. Perhaps they had a notice from Ferris or something that isn't in the manual.

 

[Z71]

OEM’s base the OCI's on an oil that meets minimum standards, not oils that are good, better or best.

 

[3930dave]

OEM痴 base the OCI's on an oil that meets minimum standards, not oils that are good, better or best.

Realistically, the OEMs don't have any choice but to calculate OCI like that, given the way most of the buying public approaches maintenance.

The other big factors are Operating Service Environment (more vehicles are Severe Duty than many owners realize), and OEM filter quality.

Engine OEMs do the best they can to balance maintenance cost with the current oil specs that they are forced to use. Unless you are manufacturing a boutique vehicle, most owners don't want to hear about mandatory expensive lubricants and filters.

Rgds, D.

 

[newbury]

Also OEM's have no freakin idea of what oil will be available in the future. I don't remember if synthetic oils like T6 (5W-40) were around in 1988 but I do know a gallon of 10W30 was a lot cheaper than $17/gallon.

I've put 12K on my F350 http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/oil-fuel-lubricants/277422-once-again-synthetics-oil-analysis-2.html and Blackstone figures I should be good for 2K more.

That's close to 15K and a year and a half between changes based on UOA.

 

[kenmac]

My engine is the FS691V Kawasaki in my Ferris mower. I was curious when everyone says their manual doesn't call for synthetic so I just went back for a review of the manual (online) and it says nothing about using synthetic just the weights and the API class of SG, SH, SJ or SL. It does say that using multi-weight oils may cause more oil consumption than a single weight and the recommendation is for 10W-40 or SAE 40 for my temperature ranges ( 80- 100F).

The dealer mechanic is who cautioned me to use ONLY full synthetic oil and Mobil One full synthetic is the only one I found(at Walmart) with an SL rating. The first oil change (no filter change) is at 8 hours which is where I put in the Mobile 1 full synthetic. It is only a quart so not a big deal to use the synthetic oil as recommended by the dealer even though the manual doesn't state that. I guess I missed that when looking at the oil recommendation and just went by the dealers mechanic warning. He was very adamant and mentioned it several times so I figured it must be important. Perhaps they had a notice from Ferris or something that isn't in the manual.

I think we have about the same manual. They usually print 1 manual to cover several different engines.. I also use synthetic, but it's not required. Seems like mine is about 1.5 qts with filter.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I think we have about the same manual. They usually print 1 manual to cover several different engines.. I also use synthetic, but it's not required. Seems like mine is about 1.5 qts with filter.

I think my manual says 1.3 Quart with filter change. It doesn't hold even a quart without the filter change. My little filter wont hold half a cup. If even a bit over the full line it blows oil out the exhaust. I put in a quart and when I cranked it up, it looked worse than any mosquito fogger. I had to drain some oil out(about 1/4 quart) so that it was half way between add and full mark for it to stop smoking. The manual says to check it with the dip stick NOT screwed in but it apparently was a bit over full when doing it that way.

 

[Ben755]

I also have the kawasaki FS951v in a Gravely mower. My manual also doesn't mention using synthetic oil - only being specific about the class and weight for differing temp zones. However, my manual lists oil capacity as 1.9 Us qts with filter and 2.2 without. Why Kawasaki is so vague in their use of synthetic oil is rather surprising to me. Most major manufacturers of small engines recommend the use of synthetic lubricants in their products and some will double the warranty period if they are used ( my Stihl trimmers and chainsaw warranty was extended for using their HD ultra 2 cycle synthetic oil). I've got ether Mobill 1, Amsoil, or Polaris' synthetic oil in everthing I own, even small walk behind mowers .