Synthetic Rotella

[sneaky_pete]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( First of all I am not bashing Rotella synthetic or any other brand of synthetic oil. Just posing a discussion point.

The consumers perceptions on synthetic oil seems to be if it is synthetic it is great stuff. Is this necessarially true ? Are some synthetics better than others ? Are some no better or worse than premium grade dino oil ?

I am not addressing the break in or leak ,etc issues, just the issue of our perception that if it is synthetic it is great stuff.

I suspect as the manufacture of synthetic oils spread to other companies we will get some trash synthetic oil at some point. All other products seem to have followed this pattern. Just waiting on the first Chinese synthetic oil to gauge the reaction /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Or maybe some of what we now have is made in China ? I just checked on several different bottles of oil in my shop and found some do not say where they were made at all, some say made in USA and one said made from foreign and domestic products.....
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I only have personal experience with Mobil 1 and Castrol Syntec, but my advice would be to stick with the major oil company brands and you can't go wrong.

Pete

 

[Dargo]

After seeing the actuarial results of tens of thousands of engine breakdowns for my business, and reviewing those statistics, do you know how many of those engine failures were the result of "lack of lubrication" in engines that had used synthetic oil? Zero. I'm sort of a numbers guy. I make my living by reviewing and insuring risks. With those results and stats, I'd use it in all of my engines unless the cost (value) of the engine I was putting it in was was less than the cost (value) of the synthetic oil. You can base your own cost / risk calculations on whatever methods with which you are comfortable; myself, I like using existing wide based statistics. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I personally prefer Mobil synthetic products, but that is a personal preference; not based upon a wide base of quantitative facts. It's your money, the nice thing about that is that you get to decide how to spend it. (yeah, I'm well aware of the political complications possible with that statement, but I'll leave it /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

 

[cp1969]

I'm not sure of what the benefit of using synthetic is. Dino oil has improved to the point that I haven't seen a dirty engine in a decade.

I had to break open the engine on my Cub Cadet and it was spotless, just like new. It's been treated to one (dino) oil change per year for the last ten years. I have a Harley Sportster that gets the same oil change schedule--7,000 miles and it, too, is just like new inside. A friend's Ford F250 with a 351 was still running strong at 360,000 miles when he sold it.

I'm aware of all the superior properties that synthetics claim to have, but at some point, it's just overkill. If you're using something that's plenty good , then something that is even better isn't going to improve things much, if at all.

 

[Dargo]

It really depends on the engine. Open almost any Chrysler 2.7 liter engine that has gone more than 6000 miles in between changes and you'll find plenty of sludge. Same goes for VW Passat 4 cyl engines, many Toyota 3.0 liter engines etc. etc. etc. I see reports, including high resolution pictures, each and every work day of sludged up engines. Many have owners who show receipts where they had their oil changed every 5k or less since new. This is an unfortunate undisputable fact. Believe me, it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars each year. I won't go any further than to say that yes, conventional petrolium based motor oil, can work very well and has for decades. However, in many ways technology requires more from a motor oil.
My father has a '31 Chrysler with a flat head 4 cyl in it that runs just fine. I'm sure that it has never seen synthetic oil.
Times change and so does technology. How would you like that old flat head 4 built in the early 30's in your new car? Not a good match; technology has improved. The same with lubrication.

 

[cp1969]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I see reports, including high resolution pictures, each and every work day of sludged up engines. Many have owners who show receipts where they had their oil changed every 5k or less since new. This is an unfortunate undisputable fact. )</font>

And this is caused by not using synthetic oil? I personally haven't seen a sludged up engine since the '70s. But then again, I'm not a mechanic, either. But I would be interested in seeing the pictures.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( How would you like that old flat head 4 built in the early 30's in your new car? Not a good match; technology has improved. The same with lubrication. )</font>

No, it isn't the same. Dino oil technology has been anything but static since the flatheads were being installed in cars. Granted, I would not want to put flathead oil (probably non-detergent 30W) in a modern car, but that isn't the issue.

 

[BRIGUY]

I have seen sludged up 2.7's at my friend's dealership. At the dealership it's a nightmare if the owner can't provide proof of oil change intervals.

Yes many OEM's are changing their oil requirements to synthetic. The reason?? A lot more is expected of engines today. Huge horsepower, High RPM, light weight, Supercharging, Turbo charging, smaller displacement, high fuel economy, ultra low emissions, longer service intervals to reduce waste oil, etc.

It's a whole new ball game from running dino oil in an lightly loaded, low RPM, naturally aspirated, large displacement, cast iron, atmospherically vented, pushrod motor, run in a moderate climate.

For some applications metallurgy and combustion technology has changed and lubrication technology has had to change to keep up.

 

[Dargo]

cp1969, as per your request. Here is a nice picture of the windage tray and main bearing from the inside of an '02 Dodge Intrepid. Owner has changed oil every 5500 miles; has receipts. Major engine failure due to lack of lubrication directly due to (jelling) sludging of motor oil plugging oil journals. I knew I'd get a fresh pic today; it happens every single day.

By the way, I'm not just picking on Dodge Intrepids. That is just the photo that came across my desk with a report today. It happens thousands of times each day across the country. With the facts I have, I still stand by my statement that I'll use a quality synthetic oil in every engine I own that is worth more than the cost of the synthetic oil it takes to fill it. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[cp1969]

Yep, that looks nasty, although it isn't really clear to me what I'm looking at. I don't see a main bearing. It almost looks like a waffle iron. That brown stuff is not what I'm accustomed to seeing as sludge; sludge is very nearly jet black.

Now, though, the $64K question: This won't happen with synthetic? Had this fellow been using synthetic, this engine would not look this way?

 

[WilliamBos]

Hi,

Question? the car this pic came from, by the looks of things it was a short distance city driven car? Sludge build up usually indicates this, since city driving is murder!!

My 2 cents............... My 1982 GMC 1500 was driven short distance for a number of years, and I let time, not KM's ( milage ) dictate oil change intervals. I later sold the motor to a friend for a 1938 chev truck, and when they took the intake off to put an aluminum one on it, the inside looked new!!

This is often one thing we dont see in the hot debate of dino versus synthetic oil, driving distance from point A to point B everyday.

Only my 2 cents though, not meant to get anyone mad!!

What year was the intrepid?

Take care

Will

 

[Dargo]

I'd mentioned before, the pic is of the guts of an '02 Intrepid. Attached is a news article about the VW problem. I'll attach a pic in the next post about Chrysler. I have one on Toyota, but can't put my hands on it right now.

The issue is NOT related to highway or city driving. It is related to certain parts of the oil passages being "super heated" and causing the oil to break down. The oil companies say that it is a defect in engine design. The auto manufacturers claim that it is a defect in the refining process. Either way, without going into more than I can regarding my business, oil problems happen every day by the thousands.

After much research, synthetic oil does not have the sub components needed to break down into "sludge". In other words, synthetic oil is chemically not able to break down into a wax or parifin or jelly (whatever you want to call it) that begins the end of an engine.

I'm not placing blame, I'm just reporting facts based upon a base of thousands of cases. Again, for the assurance that the problem supposedly physically cannot happen with synthetic oil, I'm going to use it. In the insurance business, it is known as cheap insurance. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif