Synthetic vs Mineral Oil in my Tacoma

[Grumpycat]

I can agree not all synthetic oils are engineered for extended drains.
Just like not all mineral oils would not be good for 15,000 mile drains either.

No way I would put the cheapest mineral oil in a vehicle and expect it to run 15,000 miles with no ill effects.
I would love to see that lab report @15K miles

I use Amsoil. The claim is 25k oil changes. I have not been able to get 25K oil changes.
Based on lab results I get about 1/2 that mileage

Yes, because it is not the oil, it is the engine which determines the need to drain. Every engine beats multi-viscosity oil out of spec differently. Every engine contaminates its oil differently. You are smart to use UOA testing. Amsoil makes good products but their marketing permits even encourages snake oil salesmen to represent their products.

Porsche said in 1983 (that I know of) the drain interval of their (intended to be) premier product was 12 months or 15,000 miles. How could they be wrong? Look it up.

Price paid is a very poor indicator of a motor oil's suitability for task.

 

[kenmac]

Price paid is a very poor indicator of a motor oil's suitability for task.

We'll just have to disagree on that statement.
Good is not cheap, and cheap is not good.. Meaning it cost more to make a good product,materials, etc,.therefore, the cost of the product cost you more

It doesn't cost as much in materials, labor, etc, to make a cheap product, therefore, it can be bought for less

My vehicles aren't cheap. I'm not going to purchase the cheapest lubricant on the shelf... There is a reason it's cheap.

TBN is an acid fighter in oil. The less TBN an oil has, the less protection it has

Acid, high temps, combustion by products takes it's toll on a lubricant.
I will put My Amsoil lab test up against the cheap off the shelf mineral oil any day

 

[kenmac]

Porsche said in 1983 (that I know of) the drain interval of their (intended to be) premier product was 12 months or 15,000 miles. How could they be wrong? Look it up.

''Their premier product'' Can I safely assume you are meaning their brand oil, and not some off the shelf cheap oil from your local quick stop ?

If so, Then they have has this oil formulated for their engine to run 15k with this specially formulated oil. Then again. They have no idea of one's driving habits, hauling, dusty conditions, etc,.

I would not extend any mineral oil beyond the 5K without an analysis , or a top rated synthetic more than 8k without analysis.
That's just me..... To each his /her own

 

[bridge4]

I think maybe just because something is the most expensive doesn't mean it's the best. Generally the 2nd and 3rd options have more "value per dollar" but there are always exceptions.

@grumpycat I'm not gonna look for documentation that you already told me can't exist, I think we aren't gonna agree here. In the end, isn't any study paid for by someone? I still think that the "truth in advertising" act should keep most people from lying too drastically, so maybe the 15k Mobile1 gets 10k, but there would be huge lawsuits and destroyed engines everywhere if it didn't make it past 5k without issue.

Edit: maybe you know who these guys are?

What is Synthetic Oil? - Synthetic Oil vs. Conventional Oil

 

[Copperhead]

well, cost is relative also to how much the oil company in question is spending on advertising, promotion, down line, packaging, and a whole host of other things. There are some very fine oils that can be had for what one would consider "cheap" compared to the fancier boutique oils.

One has to be aware that all oil blenders get their components from the same suppliers as everyone else. Additives, for instance, the largest percentage come primarily from Infineum and Lubrizol. Shell, Chevron, and Mobil supply the lion's share of base oils. There are some other small companies that do additives and base oils, but the bulk comes from those listed.

So pricing ends up pretty much a combination of factors from perception, marketing, volume of sales, etc. Some of the store brands actually are the very same blends as major label oils. Independent testing labs have shown that to be the case in several instances. Brands like the farm and home Rural King and others have been shown to be very good quality oils.

 

[Grumpycat]

''Their premier product'' Can I safely assume you are meaning their brand oil, and not some off the shelf cheap oil from your local quick stop ?

If so, Then they have has this oil formulated for their engine to run 15k with this specially formulated oil. Then again. They have no idea of one's driving habits, hauling, dusty conditions, etc,.

I would not extend any mineral oil beyond the 5K without an analysis , or a top rated synthetic more than 8k without analysis.
That's just me..... To each his /her own

No. The "premier product" I was referring to is the 1983 Porsche 928S.

The motor oil specified was simply "Shell 10W-40".

Porsche 928 General Information and Recommended Maintenance Intervals | Rennlist

 

[RalphVa]

I think maybe just because something is the most expensive doesn't mean it's the best. Generally the 2nd and 3rd options have more "value per dollar" but there are always exceptions.

@grumpycat I'm not gonna look for documentation that you already told me can't exist, I think we aren't gonna agree here. In the end, isn't any study paid for by someone? I still think that the "truth in advertising" act should keep most people from lying too drastically, so maybe the 15k Mobile1 gets 10k, but there would be huge lawsuits and destroyed engines everywhere if it didn't make it past 5k without issue.

Edit: maybe you know who these guys are?

What is Synthetic Oil? - Synthetic Oil vs. Conventional Oil

I like the video. He shows clearly that a 5w oil is often more viscous at cold, starting temperatures than a 30w oil. This is true. So, a 5w30 (and even a 0w20) likely will be more like a 30w or higher viscosity oil at cold startup temperature.

One weird thing about Group III oils is they can have very different additive needs, depending on their processing. If a Group III oil (normally made by hydrocracking, which substitutes for the old phenol or furfural extraction processes to remove very bad aromatic molecules from the oil) still uses solvent dewaxing instead of the newer catalytic dewaxing process, it will require A LOT more pour depressant. This pour depressant is a chemical that when subject to changes by blowby gas chemicals over time, it can either break down in viscosity or combine to raise viscosity.

Group IV and V oils have NO, absolutely none, wax and therefore do not require ANY pour depressant. The oil has a natural pour point less than or equal to the -40 F/C spec.

Ralph

 

[kenmac]

No. The "premier product" I was referring to is the 1983 Porsche 928S.

The motor oil specified was simply "Shell 10W-40".

Porsche 928 General Information and Recommended Maintenance Intervals | Rennlist

well do as you please. I'm not running any vehicle I own 15K on a standard 10w30 motor oil of any brand
I ran a Exxon 10w 30 standard oil once at 5k. and according to UAO. it should have been changed at 35K
This was back a few yrs before the direct injected vehicles.

Many years ago. I worked at a full service station. There was a old guy that use to come in and bring his own oil and filter when he wanted an oil change.
He would only replace the oil filter ever other oil change. As I know of, he never had a major engine repair.
I would never do this, but it seemed to work for him

 

[HillStreet]

Update from the OP: Thanks for all the information. I know synthetics are good, and I know there are a lot of opinions on the subject. My owners manual says to use conventional oil, my dealer says to use conventional oil, so I just did an oil change with conventional oil.
I went to Jiffy Lube and they also told me the Toyota spec is for conventional oil. It is not about money, it is not about extending the drain time, it is about factory recommendations. So from here on out, I will change oil and filter at 5000 miles with conventional oil.
One other thing: I give Jiffy Lube good marks for vehicle service. I know they are a fast lube place but it is just an oil/grease/filter/tire rotation place. I watch them, I verify no leaks. Toyota dealers do not have the best employees in all cases, but they do have overhead that drives their bottom line too.

 

[Copperhead]

There are various characteristics that make different Group oils desirable in their own way. I prefer blends of groups so that I get the advantages of both. Pour points and rated viscosities are one thing, but there is lot more that a motor oil has to do and that calls for very detailed ad packs.