T-4 Emissions coming for next year?

[DeereMann]

Direct injection is also more expensive than indirect injection. See, for smaller engines like SCUT's & CUT's, this over-regulation is just killing the market with excessive prices.

I wasn't planning to upgrade from my Deere L&G 445 to my SCUT for a couple of years until the EPA forced my hand this year. A little earlier monthly payment was worth the price to avoid EPA Nonroad C.I. Tier 4: cleaner enginer, more power, longer life, less fuel consumption, lower price........all for how much more emissions per year? Hardly significant compared to power plants and such.

:thumbdown:

 

[Sysop]

I wasn't trying to say it wasn't more expensive, I agree it is. I was just saying that the cost is of DI is decreasing overall. The price difference of today isn't what it was when direct injection was a newer technology limited to less machines. That and the fact it's a more efficient or less wasteful means of producing power, I feel it's more of a benefit than a type of over-regulation. I think it is something manufacturers would probably add eventually with or without the regulations just for the power efficiency increases alone. The particulate filters on the other hand, I don't think this is one of the better solutions possible, I think it's just the easiest way to meet the over-regulated standards and the costs associated with them are ridiculous.

I agree 100% the differences in emissions per year are not significant (especially compared to a power plant) and if one is in the market for a tractor, now is the time to buy before all you can get is the latest in EPA garb...

 

[ksJoe]

If a diesel particulate filter caused a problem... Could it simply be removed, and the fuel injection into the exhaust was disabled? Would there be any other issues to deal with, or would the computer just think it's doing a regen occasionally?

 

[Sysop]

If a diesel particulate filter caused a problem... Could it simply be removed, and the fuel injection into the exhaust was disabled? Would there be any other issues to deal with, or would the computer just think it's doing a regen occasionally?

Not sure. I know with road vehicles there is generally sensors that need swapped for "dummies" or new programs to loaded into the computer. What I always wondered about these types of systems is; doesn't the particulate filter just collect the bad stuff and a regen cycle burn it off? If that's the case isn't it just "saving up" a bunch of trash to be burned off all at once? Seems to me the emissions would average out the same.

 

[ksJoe]

Not sure. I know with road vehicles there is generally sensors that need swapped for "dummies" or new programs to loaded into the computer. What I always wondered about these types of systems is; doesn't the particulate filter just collect the bad stuff and a regen cycle burn it off? If that's the case isn't it just "saving up" a bunch of trash to be burned off all at once? Seems to me the emissions would average out the same.

I was thinking of it more like saving it up then reburning so what finally makes it out is a clean ash. Like how a hot fire can burn clean but a cooler fire has thick smoke. I don't know if that's right or not.

Sometimes fooling the sensors is easy. For example, if a catalytic converter goes bad, a spark plug non fouler on the 02 sensor will often adjust what it sees to keep it happy.

I suspect people will figure out the methods to remove them by the time Tier 4 systems are failing in large numbers. Unless the EPA starts doing emissions testing on tractors it seems inevitable.

 

[Sysop]

I was thinking of it more like saving it up then reburning so what finally makes it out is a clean ash. Like how a hot fire can burn clean but a cooler fire has thick smoke. I don't know if that's right or not.

I'd say you are correct and that's what the extra injector would be for. I just wonder how well it actually does in the real world from an emissions standpoint once old and unmaintained like so much equipment is.

 

[DeereMann]

EPA has required engine makers to make the emissions control system tamper resistant. (remember back to the old days of 'capped' carburetor jet adjusting screws that people would just drill off to adjust? :mischievous

I suspect small diesel engine makers have added some diagnostics that do something if it senses the exhaust filter is missing. Perhaps there is a pressure drop gauge in it or something. On some of the OBD II systems required on the on-road engines, they won't let the engines start.

I don't know, just speculating - EPA has gotten really, really, active in this area. :thumbdown: