Take it all off

[MossRoad]

Pretty neat. I remember reading some posts on it last year. As others have mentioned, I never thought of doing it on something so large.

Besides doing it outdoors so the hydrogen disperses, what other safety steps do you recommend, seeing how electricity and water are being used, etc... Any dangers of electrocution or is it similar to any outdoor power applications like holiday lighting, electric lawn tools, etc... I guess a GFCI would protect you from the 110 side of the charger, but not from the water end, correct?

Nice to hear about the water not being too toxic for the lawn. Iron has long been a secret for deep, dark green lawns.

 

[Tom_Veatch]

...
Nice to hear about the water not being too toxic for the lawn. Iron has long been a secret for deep, dark green lawns.

Just note that if you use stainless steel for your electrode, you'll wind up with chromates in the waste water. I've not run any calculations, but my gut feeling is that it would be a low, possibly negligible, concentration. But, regardless of that, it could still be considered hazardous waste.

 

[PineRidge]

Pretty neat. I remember reading some posts on it last year. As others have mentioned, I never thought of doing it on something so large.

Besides doing it outdoors so the hydrogen disperses, what other safety steps do you recommend, seeing how electricity and water are being used, etc... Any dangers of electrocution or is it similar to any outdoor power applications like holiday lighting, electric lawn tools, etc... I guess a GFCI would protect you from the 110 side of the charger, but not from the water end, correct?

Nice to hear about the water not being too toxic for the lawn. Iron has long been a secret for deep, dark green lawns.

Moss I would take the normal precautions as when using any electrical appliance outdoors. I accidentally, on purpose stuck my hand in the water while everything was plugged in and didn't feel a shock until my hand got between the electrode and the work, then I could feel it.

Your results may vary.

 

[PeterT]

Mike

Does this process take off paint as well as rust or just the rust?


Petert

 

[Tom_Veatch]

Moss I would take the normal precautions as when using any electrical appliance outdoors. I accidentally, on purpose stuck my hand in the water while everything was plugged in and didn't feel a shock until my hand got between the electrode and the work, then I could feel it.

Your results may vary.

Just to put another data point on the curve, I've done the same thing. The most I've felt is a tingling, stinging sensation on the skin; nothing I could even describe as a shock.

Take normal, common sense precautions to not make electrical contact with both electrodes simultaneously and there shouldn't be a problem. I don't know what would happen if you used a DC welder as a power source. I believe most of those are rated at 25VDC output which isn't much voltage, but they can pump a lot more amperage across a shorted or low resistance load than most 12V battery chargers - and it's amperage, not voltage, that kills. So I'd probably be a little extra cautious if you use one of those.

I would like to make one point about the waste water. After you use this process a few times, you may get tired of the gunk that builds up in the tank and on the sacrificial electrode. I recommend that you NOT use stainless steel. It may reduce the gunk buildup but it will also release chromates into the waste water and you are then faced with a toxic waste disposal problem. Best to use something like scraps of re-rod or other low alloy steels and deal with the non-hazardous gunk.

 

[jinman]

Mike, I don't know "squat" about snowplows, and normally I just blow by threads related to them, but this one caught my eye and I'm glad to see your "driveway chemistry lab" is working so well. You're using brains instead of brawn to do a very tough job. Even if you sandblasted that blade, it would be a tough job getting into all the corners and cracks. Also, you don't have to suit up in some ridiculous outfit like you do to sandblast. I'm sure your plow is going to turn out great.

I did notice that there was some rusty looking liquid on your concrete driveway. Will you have rust stains, or does it rinse away clean?

 

[PineRidge]

Jim the rust falls off the rebar and hits the drive whenever it comes out of the bath to be cleaned. Keeping the rebar cleaned speeds up the whole electrolysis process. As it starts to get caked with rust I can see the battery charger pumping less amps into the soup, since it's one of those self regulating types.

The power-washer cleans the crud right off the concrete but I don't wan't to get it to close to the soup tank right now for obvious reasons.

I can't imagine a winter without snow. Just the same every winter when there's a foot of snow on the ground I think of Texas.

 

[Farwell]

PineRidge,
I managed television news motion picture labs at a couple of stations in Northern California for around 15 years and I reclaimed silver from the ammonium thiosulfate fixer chemical using a similar process to your rust remover. I used graphite plates as anodes and a rotating stainless steel drum as a cathode to collect the silver from the solution. I never thought of using the same process to remove rust, sounds like a great idea. I still have a couple of power supplies from the units that I can use as a rust remover power source. I think they go up to 10 amps but don't remember what the output voltage is. Thanks for the rust removing education. If I ever set up the process I will take some photos and let you know how it goes.
Farwell

 

[PineRidge]

Farwell it really amazes me just how simple this process is. It's also easy to build a tank using lumber and Visqueen so that you can immerse larger items like rusted implements.

I can't think of an easier way to free rusted nuts and bolts than this method, it sure beats Power Blaster!

 

[RalphVa]

I can vouch for this electrolysis method. I used it to derust a rotary plow that I bought for my Gravely (all since sold).

The best thing to apply to the cleaned metal is one of the products that react with any rust present to make iron sulfide. You can paint right over it, once dry. Rustoleum makes one called Rust Reformer. NAPA makes another. Trustan may still be available. All these are the same.

I once applied some to parts of the Gravely snow plow that had had the paint rubbed completely off. That metal never did dull or rust.

Ralph

 

[Renze]

Can i also use agricultural salt ( the kind you use to conservate silage and comes in 25 kg bags) as a conductor, or would that cause continuous corrosion once you take it out of the bath ?

 

[PineRidge]

I can't answer that question but Arm & Hammer washing soda isn't that expensive.

 

[Renze]

What's the chemical composition of washing soda ? i'm not familiar with this stuff, at least not the English name of it.

 

[Tom_Veatch]

What's the chemical composition of washing soda ? i'm not familiar with this stuff, at least not the English name of it.

Washing Soda = Sodium Carbonate
Baking Soda = Sodium Bicarbonate

Around here, Washing Soda is found in the cleaning materials section of the supermarkets.

 

[jwstewar]

I keep wanting to do one of the projects, whenever I'm in a store and I think about it I try to find the A&H Washing Powder, but so far I've had no luck in finding it. I've check Kroger and Wal-Mart - and Lowes (I thought maybe by chance). Might have to check a little Mom & Pop grocery store to see if they carry it.

 

[Highbeam]

Guys, I am pleased to contribute a discovery.

If washing soda is indeed sodium carbonate then I have a great source for you. I buy it in containers of about a half gallon. The stuff, sodium carbonate, is also what the commercial coffee pot cleaners are made of. The place I buy it for cheap is walmart and it is......







Pool pH increaser.

The big plastic jug of fine powder used to increase pH and should be available year 'round at pool stores and seasonally (at least) from walmart where I bought my last jug. It is cheap. I have even found it at home depot in their pond section.

I originally bought it to raise the pH in my hot tub and I have used it several times in my drip coffee maker to get all the nasty oils and stains to dissolve.

 

[NorthwestBlue]

Highbeam,

That is a great discovery. But, I got to thinking... with our pool (I sure miss that pool) I always added "Alkalinity Up" which is Sodium Bicarbonate to increase the PH. If you go to the pool supply make sure you get the Soda Ash which is Sodium Carbonate. I did a search and lesliespool.com had different quantities up to a 50lb bucket for $50.

Mike,

Thanks for making me remember my high school chemistry. For one project I took two test tubes filled with water and inverted in a water and sodium carbonate filled flask. Put a "J" shaped coated wire with a bit of exposed wire into each test tube and connected a small 12 volt battery. A little while later the water in the test tubes was replaced by oxygen in one and hydrogen in another. I then lifted the test tubes out of the water and inserted a lit match. And of course the oxygen one burned more intensely and the Hydrogen one popped in a small explosion. Water, electricity, gas, and fire... Great fun!

Now pardon me while I go and try to find some big rusty pieces of steel and run by the pool supply store.

 

[Glowplug]

Hey Mike, what happened? Did the snow plow dissintegrate? Give us an update.

 

[PineRidge]

Hey Mike, what happened? Did the snow plow dissintegrate? Give us an update.

Glowplug the majority of the parts have now been removed from the "soup" pressure washed, and primed. BTW: The process only removes rust, it will have no effect on the steel itself so there is no fear of disintegration.

They are just waiting for an opportunity to be painted. The electrolysis process was slow with the larger parts, like the blade itself but I was also working with a smaller battery charger. The process ate roughly 30' of rebar and the cleaned parts were remarkably rust-free, and after pressure washing looked like new.

I'll post a picture or two after painting.

 

[Glowplug]

BTW: The process only removes rust, it will have no effect on the steel itself so there is no fear of disintegration.

Yeah, I know. I was just makin' a funny. Looking forward to the pictures. You don't happen to have any without the primer, when all the rust was removed after brewing in the soup do you?