Taking down trees with tractor help

[davitk]

To add to Pat's post, the way I understand it is good old boys minimum safety requirement = cooler full of ice. We all know warm beer sucks.

 

[patrick_g]

large doublebraid nylon line is great for this, as you can load it up like a rubber band. It will continue to apply force to a tree in the directin of pull for quite a while(whatever distance you stretched it to) after the tree starts to move. It is best to pull it around something else such as a block anchored to another tree, as it can store a considerable ammount of energy and you never want to be directly in line with it. People who do much 4 wheeling have probably seen this used to great effect, using the energy of a moving vehicle to transfer energy in a stretched nylon tow strap to loosen another stuck vehicle. You just need to stay out of the possible line of flight if it should snap...

There are a couple considerations... If you have ever been in the drivers seat of a tow vehicle using this method and had a metal tow hook doing over mach 1 fly through your back glass, seat back, and windshield without stopping you wonder if maybe there is need to examine this approach.

As stated you NEVER want to stay in line with the rope under tension. Another good idea is to never attach a metal tow hook to the end of the line or the last thing to go through your mind if something goes wrong may be the tow hook doing several hundred miles per hour at time of impact. A turning block (sheave) can double the force on the sheaves attachment and cause a mechanical failure with a result of the block becoming a missile.

I too recommend the use of a good nylon rope for getting a tree to fall where you want it. Except for natural lean, unbalanced branches (poor symmetry of the foliage), or wind, you should be able to drop a tree close to where you want with NO ROPE. Unfortunately many times at least one of the above listed problems prompts someone to say, "somebody get a rope!"

Be smart, have a clue as to the working strength of the rope and how hard you are pulling on it. Percent of elongation is a good indication. Never stretch it beyond the recommended limit for that type rope (double yacht braid, 3 strand twisted, or whatever. A smart self defense move is to securely tie a piece of tarp, large towel, or similar to each end of the rope. If either end comes lose the "parachute" you tied on will dramatically reduce the velocity of the rope and can save a life.

In theory you can pull the rope out to its rated elongation, stop the work vehicle (tractor or...) get out and get away from being in direct line with the stretched rope and return to sawing the tree (keeping the tree between you and the rope) and only be in danger while driving the tractor. At this point you have a choice to make. Do I use a turning block to get the tractor and I over to the side out of the way? Will it be safer? Yes if the block stays attached to something throughout the exercise and does not fail. If it fails or comes loose you have a heavy missile flying through the air at high speed.

I use only blocks that are in good shape, much stronger than the line going through them, and secure them to something much stronger than the block. To do less is to play Russian roulette with anything in range of the missile, your tractor, window, wife, kid, livestock, your helper, yourself...

You may have been around ropes and cables your entire life but until you witness the extreme release of energy and the speeds attained by rope ends (with or without metal fittings attached) you just have no appreciation for the potential destructive force. It is like the example a guy gave recently in another post. (I paraphrase) He said he could describe bull riding to you till you "got it" but till you were on the bull and out of the gate you would still not have a clue.

Pat

 

[RonMar]

There are a couple considerations... If you have ever been in the drivers seat of a tow vehicle using this method and had a metal tow hook doing over mach 1 fly through your back glass, seat back, and windshield without stopping you wonder if maybe there is need to examine this approach.
Pat

Pat
That is a prime example of how much force can be stored/applied

Love your tag line at the bottom...

 

[patrick_g]

Pat
That is a prime example of how much force an be stored/applied

Love your tag line at the bottom...

Agreed on the force thing, sort of, actually you store energy.

After my 10 years experience in SAR work out of San Diego I can tell you about towing with nylon. First you take a little strain on the boat being towed in and then relax your throttle(s) and let the tow line(s) dip into the ocean and then take another strain. Beginners have a hard time believing you when you tell them how much heat is generated in a nylon rope under a strain but when they see the clouds of steam coming off the wet ropes they get the picture. You can get rope failure from melting strands of nylon in the rope, not just exceeding the ropes tensile strength. This melting damage is cumulative and NOT self healing. After sufficient damage is accrued the rope is significantly weaker than when new. The bad news is a rope can be severely damaged and weakened on its first use (abuse) and not show it so it is then an accident waiting for a chance to happen. It gives you something to think about when you buy a used rope, loan a rope to someone, or just use one over time. When will it become dangerously weakened?

Oh and about the tag... I heard that Monica recently registered as a republican, claiming the democrats just left a bad taste.

Pat

 

[Egon]

We all know warm beer sucks.
__________________

Don't tell the Brits that.

 

[Egon]

Rope?? Isn't that something that is rolled up on a spool??

One place I used to work there were many times the trucks would become stuck. A nylon LINE was used between two vehicles for towing. Many times the line would snap [ Bumper to bumper start and run] resulting in the requirement for new windows and radiators. Fortunetly no got hurt. Darvin messed up here!

 

[shawn1533]

Tacking down trees with a tractor can be done if there is a correlation to tractor size and tree!!

Egon,

One time I was doing the same thing you are showing in your picture with a similar size tree. The tree sheered from the bucket and the pointed top quickly slid over the bucket toward me. This happened so fast that I could not react. I feel I was real lucky when the tree got hung up and stopped short of my head. That was the last day I tried to push trees over! We now tie small trees as high as possible with a rope and from a safe distance pull the tree by hand in the direction we want it to fall. I have also seen large trees move equipment (trucks and logging machines) that were cabled to them! These trees I leave to the pro's.

 

[gemini5362]

Agreed on the force thing, sort of, actually you store energy.

After my 10 years experience in SAR work out of San Diego I can tell you about towing with nylon. First you take a little strain on the boat being towed in and then relax your throttle(s) and let the tow line(s) dip into the ocean and then take another strain. Beginners have a hard time believing you when you tell them how much heat is generated in a nylon rope under a strain but when they see the clouds of steam coming off the wet ropes they get the picture. You can get rope failure from melting strands of nylon in the rope, not just exceeding the ropes tensile strength. This melting damage is cumulative and NOT self healing. After sufficient damage is accrued the rope is significantly weaker than when new. The bad news is a rope can be severely damaged and weakened on its first use (abuse) and not show it so it is then an accident waiting for a chance to happen. It gives you something to think about when you buy a used rope, loan a rope to someone, or just use one over time. When will it become dangerously weakened?

Oh and about the tag... I heard that Monica recently registered as a republican, claiming the democrats just left a bad taste.

Pat

Pat, first of all the monica comment was a real groaner.

second I have seen the destructive power of a snapped 2 inch nylon rope. The destroyer I was on was trying to pull out in a fairly heavy current. We had a tug that was too small for our weight. We had a 2 inch rope running from the fantail ( back end of the boat for your landlubbers) to the tug. When he could not pull us out he backed up about 50 feet. We could not figure out what he was doing till we saw a big plume of smoke come out of the exhaust stack and realized he was getting a run at it. Everyone on the fantail went running for the weather hatch to the inside of the ship. The guys that could not make that ran for ladders to get up on a higher level and forward. When the tug hit the end of the rope you could see the rope stretching and when it broke the rope tore several things off of the deck as it whipped into them. At that point some wisdom came into play and we tied back up to the pier until a bigger tug could come and pull us out.

 

[patrick_g]

Don't tell the Brits that.

Egon, when I was in London I was bracing myself for warm beer but was mildly surprised to find they drink their beer cool, just not super cold like it is often served in the US. Being the thorough researcher that I am I didn't settle for just one or two samples, I visited a lot of pubs to get a statistically significant sample.

Pat

 

[RonMar]

Agreed on the force thing, sort of, actually you store energy.

After my 10 years experience in SAR work out of San Diego I can tell you about towing with nylon. First you take a little strain on the boat being towed in and then relax your throttle(s) and let the tow line(s) dip into the ocean and then take another strain. Beginners have a hard time believing you when you tell them how much heat is generated in a nylon rope under a strain but when they see the clouds of steam coming off the wet ropes they get the picture. You can get rope failure from melting strands of nylon in the rope, not just exceeding the ropes tensile strength. This melting damage is cumulative and NOT self healing. After sufficient damage is accrued the rope is significantly weaker than when new. The bad news is a rope can be severely damaged and weakened on its first use (abuse) and not show it so it is then an accident waiting for a chance to happen. It gives you something to think about when you buy a used rope, loan a rope to someone, or just use one over time. When will it become dangerously weakened?

Oh and about the tag... I heard that Monica recently registered as a republican, claiming the democrats just left a bad taste.

Pat

You are correct, energy, not force... Sounds like we have some similar experiences...

 

[wedge40]

I have to agree with most of what has been said. If it's less that 8" in diameter than I'll take the chain saw to it and hope I get it to fall correct. Anything bigger and I call in a professional. I'm lucky enough to have someone in our area who use to work for the electric company keeping lines cleared..Now he works for himself on his schedule. About a year and half ago I had 8 or 9 trees cut down for about $300. I'm going to have him come back out this spring for at least two more. One is in the area of where I want my shed and the other is diseased and close to the house. Both of these are greater than 12".
Again some things are better left up to the professionals. I worry what my insurance company would say about me dropping a tree into the livingroom.

Wedge

 

[patrick_g]

You are correct, energy, not force... Sounds like we have some similar experiences...

Ron, My best and snappiest salute to you. I never met a coastie CPO I didn't like. My wife and I were in the USCG Aux doing SAR work and teaching both member training classes
as well as public education classes, vessel exams and such for 10 years out of the San Diego CG air sta. I can still recall the coast guard officers who joined the aux and went out to play with us on SAR patrols. Toward the end of our duty there the AUX had begun to supply watch standers at the comm sta.

We didn't have any vessel available to us over about 65 ft so we relied on the real McCoy to do the heavy lifting or the rotor heads if a case were really desperate and too far out.

Pat

 

[turnkey4099]

large doublebraid nylon line is great for this, as you can load it up like a rubber band. It will continue to apply force to a tree in the directin of pull for quite a while(whatever distance you stretched it to) after the tree starts to move. It is best to pull it around something else such as a block anchored to another tree, as it can store a considerable ammount of energy and you never want to be directly in line with it. People who do much 4 wheeling have probably seen this used to great effect, using the energy of a moving vehicle to transfer energy in a stretched nylon tow strap to loosen another stuck vehicle. You just need to stay out of the possible line of flight if it should snap...

Yep, I should have remembered that seeing as I use it regularly in my firewood making, F150 2x and a stretching two strap plus lots of chains, cables (over 200 ft) and 4 snatch blocks. I had one set up where I used every bit but one snatch block and was looking for more cable.

All of that lives in the cab when not in use.

Harry K

 

[turnkey4099]

Egon, when I was in London I was bracing myself for warm beer but was mildly surprised to find they drink their beer cool, just not super cold like it is often served in the US. Being the thorough researcher that I am I didn't settle for just one or two samples, I visited a lot of pubs to get a statistically significant sample.

Pat

I ran the same experiment in Germany. Total of 6 years and still wasn't sure of my results. I was willing to make the sacrifice for science. If I ever go back I will extend the trial.

Harry K

 

[patrick_g]

I ran the same experiment in Germany. Total of 6 years and still wasn't sure of my results. I was willing to make the sacrifice for science. If I ever go back I will extend the trial.

Harry K

A friend of mine is scheduled to go back and visit the "old sod" early this fall and is trying to get my wife and I to go along. Maybe an additional justification would be a comparative analysis between Irish bub beer and English as typified in London.

Pat

 

[smfcpacfp]

Do all discussions ultimately end in old drinking stories?

 

[Egon]

Go to Pilsen and try some Pilsner.

Better yet embark on a ferry voyage up the Rhine and then switchover and go up the Donnau. Scenery plus sampling of local produce.

 

[PAGUY]

The voice of experience when it comes to dumb setup in felling a tree.I had a maple tree next to my garage that was 2 foot in diameter at the base. A third of the way up the base branhed out in three individual trunks. Upon deciding it was time to take it down I managed to use an electric chain saw attached to a fiberglass extension pole to cut off most of the branches and two of the shorter trunks. The final and tallest trunk was leaning towards the garage so I used a grapple hook attached to a rope and caught the branch close to the top of the tree. I then attached it to my tractor and drove out far enough where I figured it couldn't reach the tractor. Kept the pressure on to hopefully make the tree fall towards the tractor and land on the lawn. Went back and climbed the ladder with the electric chain saw in hand. made a cut on thew opposite side of the tree which was towards the tractor. Then cut the tree on the side the ladder I was standing on. Cut a little and check the pressure on the rope and adjust as I could hear a crack sound. My last cut on the ladder and I could hear and see the tree trunk lean 45 degrees from where I wanted it to fall. This caused the grapple hook to loosen and slip off. I was down off the ladder in micro-seconds. Like it happened in slow motion the tree once free from the pressure sprung completely in the opposite direction where I had been on the ladder. It snapped and came down between the house and garage but wiped out my 220V line to the garage. My tree was down to where I could now cut it up but I had no power in the garage so I had to run an extension cord from the GFIC outlet on the deck of the house. The nylon rope did make that grapple hook shoot like an arrow from a bow but no damage there. After cutting up the tree to clear the driveway I had to repair the line to the garage. So much for an amatuer tree surgeon. The stump is still there but slowly rotting away. I read somewhere that you put cow manure on it and cover it with plastic. Seem to do the job of beginning the rotting process.

 

[davitk]

OK, I think we have a winner here..... one empty beer cooler (well, almost empty, comes with the melted ice cubes) goes to..... PAGUY

 

[turnkey4099]

I did much the same. Over 2' red fir withing 6' of the house. Top hamper loaded toward the house. On roof, on ladder, cut off all the branches I could reach on the house side, cable out to a well planted RR tie, 3 5 gal buckets of water in the middle of the tight cable to try to maintain a bit of pull as the tree starts to move. Main concern was 'miss the house' - no problem after removing the overhanging branches.

Next was the fence. Had one good section of fence right angle and a slop job of a fence needing replacement.

Uhuh, beautiful aim, dead smack in the middle of the good section and about 30 degrees from where I was aiming.

All threads eventually get to the beer drinking as that is the whole purpose of the forum, isn't it?

Harry K