Taxes and Bio-diesel...a thought

[Soundguy]

My guess would be more likely the road tax would be based on milage / miles driven.. in order to calculate taxes, on an otherwise 'free' energy source.. like wind/solar.. etc. I also think that is a long way off for realistic use.. etc.

Soundguy

 

[TiminMN]

Several of professor David Pimentel studies include sunlight, as well as the food that a farmer eats. He will also use production numbers that are 15 years old. We have become a lot more efficient at growing and processing since then. Every body talk about the energy to make ethanol or biodiesel but thinks gas or diesel is energy free. Fact is ethanol and biodiesel have a better energy ratio the most of the energy we use today. Do a search on energy balance and you will find Pimentel is involved with every negative study, while several other people have found positive energy ratio.

 

[slowrev]

Soundguy,
You are right effective alternative energy sources for personal vehiles is a ways off. Probably by then vehicles will have black boxes that automatically tax you for road taxes, tolls and parking fees. Perhaps even print you out a speeding ticket /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif And if you don't pay the taxes/fees it will probably disable your vehicle.
Ben

 

[SkyPup]

Is he the one wanting to truck all the municipal wastes and sewages from large metro areas around the county to dump into the Great Lakes and create huge gargantuan vats of filth (giant cesspools) to grow huge mats of algae on in order to make biodiesel profitable?

 

[fishman]

I'm not replying to anyone in particular, just posting an observation on renewable fuels.

I too have heard that it takes more energy to produce biofuels than what you can obtain from them. I've heard it so many times I took it to be gospel. That's why I was confused when I watched a special the other night on Brazil's dependence on ethanol. They convert a great deal of sugarcane to ethanol and in the process have become almost completely independent of foreign oil. In addition, the ethanol produced from the sugarcane appeared to be less than half the price of gasoline. Even accounting for possible tax incentives and subsidies, these facts wouldn't add up if biofuels were more expensive to produce than gas.

It's also likely that many of these comparison studies were made when gasoline was quite a bit cheaper, even when adjusted for inflation.

I'm not sure there's any unbiased information about this available.

 

[SkyPup]

Unfortunately, turning sugar cane into ethanol uses more energy, and thus causes more greenhouse-gas emission, than making petrol from crude oil.

Besides, the farmers realized they could get paid allot more money for their commodity simply selling the unconverted sugar on the world market instead. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Charlie_in_TX]

Every study of his I have read only includes the energy used by the farming equipment, energy used in the fertilizer, energy used in the production of the farm equipment, and the energy to get the fuel from the crop.

The validity of any of the reports/studies will have to be proven. No one knows for sure.

In my opinion (and it is not a highly educated one), ethanol will never be an effecient replacement for gasoline. It cost too much to distill it. However, biodiesel may be a different mater. I have seen reports (reported in this forum if I recall) of enzimes that will cheaply and effectively remove the oil from the crop. The more optomistic reports I have read on ethanol says it can give 1.3 units of energy for every one unit used to produce it (30% gain). The more optomistic reports I have read on biodiesel says it can give 2.2 units of energy for every unit used to produce it(120% gain). Far more effective use of the farmland.

 

[MikePA]

Here's a link to the study that presents the other side of 'making biodiesel uses more energy than it supplies' controversy. Click Here.

 

[slowrev]

A former insect specialist and a former oil company employee. A real expert on ethanol and an oil industry biased person ???? No wonder ethanol takes more energy to produce than it makes /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Ben

 

[SkyPup]

Politically paid lobbyists (Biodieesel.org) are not always the best source of unbiased infomation regarding the product they have for sale...... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif