tc18 2wd not hydro

hazmat · Dec 7, 2002

Just yet another reason not to buy one of the boomer series...

I think the bigger ones (Class II & III) have two stage clutches. It's an economy ($$$) thing. A lot of features you see in an accord, you don't see in a civic....

Soundguy · Dec 8, 2002

I think the bigger ones (Class II & III) have two stage clutches. It's an economy ($$$) thing. A lot of features you see in an accord, you don't see in a civic....


Yeah.. nothing like saving 50 bucks in parts, and 3 dollars in overseas wages to stick it to the american tractor consumer.. then try to justife a couple grand in price differences on the models...

You can always tell when a company is getting ready to 'bone over' its consumers, when profits start becoming the main concern.... US Robotics ( modem manufacturer ) dropped its best consumers in favor for cheaper models, more profit, and less customer support,,....

Soundguy

RickB · Dec 8, 2002

Your attitude sucks. Low end compacts have been built in that configuration forever, by Ford, then New Holland and most if not all manufacturers. 1100's, 1110's, 1210's, 1220's, and even the 13's and 15's mostly had single stage clutches. In fact, most had manual steering. The retail price difference between a single clutch assembly and a double is over $500 in any brand and closer to $1000 in many instances. And there is more than a clutch assembly involved in live PTO. Did Henry Ford 'stick it' to you by not putting live PTO in the 8N you own? Tractors are built with different equipment for different markets. Not all buyers want to pay for full featured models, just as most wouldn't settle for plain Jane basics.

Soundguy · Dec 9, 2002

Your attitude sucks. Low end compacts have been built in that configuration forever, by Ford, then New Holland and most if not all manufacturers. 1100's, 1110's, 1210's, 1220's, and even the 13's and 15's mostly had single stage clutches. In fact, most had manual steering. The retail price difference between a single clutch assembly and a double is over $500 in any brand and closer to $1000 in many instances. And there is more than a clutch assembly involved in live PTO. Did Henry Ford 'stick it' to you by not putting live PTO in the 8N you own? Tractors are built with different equipment for different markets. Not all buyers want to pay for full featured models, just as most wouldn't settle for plain Jane basics.

First of all, I'm entitled to my opinion., however much it may differ from your own. Secondly, While expressing my opinion for a device, I didn't personally attack you, unlike your post back to me.

In my opinion ( there it goes again ), Your post should be removed, as that kind of a personal attack desn't belong here.

Now to the issues. As for the price of the clutch assemblies.. you are quoting prices in the retail realm.. I was speaking in manufacturing costs. And I would imaging, the base MATERIALS cost of a tractor with a single stage clutch, and a dual stage clutch is very similar.

As for my 8n, looking at the tractor of the time, live pto was not a common option.. rare to non-existant would be closer to the truch. In this day and age, live / independent pto is like pepsi/coca-cola. So no.. I don't feel like Ford boned me over for providing a tractor that actually had more options than many of the other tractors of the day.. like a 3pt lift, etc.

Do I feel the boomer series of NH is / are lower end.. yes.
There are more instances of the boomers breaking in half with backhoes for one thing.
They use smaller engines with less cylinders / cuid to generate the same HP numbers by working the engine harder.
Sounds like a 'designed to fail' device, as we engineers would say...but more seriously, it probably adheres to a projected work life / lifespan pretty closely.

Do I think a good portion of the tc 18's will still be doing active productive work in 50 plus years? No.. are 9/2/8N's and fergusions still doing it? Yes.

From an economic point of view.. why produce a tractor that will run 50 years... all you get is replacement parts sales... Make a tractor that lasts only a few years then needs to be replaced....

More money for the company... Happens every day.

Just like my modem analogy.
US robotics used to make arguably the best high speed modem.. certaintly one of the first on the playing field. ( Was the first modem used in cable communications to russia via cable ).. also was one of the first modems endorsed by US treasury service for sending in e-tax returns.
They were good.. they were expensive.. you got what you paid for. They had good customer service. Frequent and return customers ( BBS SysOps ) were given speacial deals for long term use of their products.
Then the company got greedy. Quality dropped through the floor.. prices stayed high, customer service dried up, and the hung their most loyal customers out to dry ( the ones that put their company where it is today ).

While I disagree with your post, I will refrain from personally attacking you,... like you did me.

I would rather debate the issures.. not red herrings...

Soundguy

spencer200 · Dec 9, 2002

I guess I would have to disagree with your cuid statment these tractor which are considered the competitors for the TC18 are samaller cid kubota b7400 43.9 cid, john deere 4010 47.84 cid, New Holland tc18 58.2 cid these specs are right from the companies web pages. One could argue that the b7500 from kubota is a closer competitor but this is a 21hp. if you did argue this point the cid is 62. and would be slightly larger than the TC18. As for the point of tractors breaking in half with backhoes I have seen all brands do this not just New Hollands and it all comes down to the abuse they recieve from the customers. The original Class 3 boomer put into service for test purposes has well over 7000 hours on it now with no major problems and it has been tested in all types of conditions. As they all say just my opinion!

Soundguy · Dec 10, 2002

guess I would have to disagree with your cuid statment these tractor which are considered the competitors for the TC18 are samaller cid kubota b7400 43.9 cid, john deere 4010 47.84 cid, New Holland tc18 58.2 cid these specs are right from the companies web pages. One could argue that the b7500 from kubota is a closer competitor but this is a 21hp. if you did argue this point the cid is 62. and would be slightly larger than the TC18. As for the point of tractors

My original comment on cuid was not about compairing competitors models, then looking at cuid...( nor was it specifically directed at the tc 18) it was refering to , for instance, two tractors that ford/NH makes, both listing the same hp, one with a smaller engine. ( slightly different rpm numbers for that hp.. but heck.. if I have a choice of working the snot out of a small 3 cyl till it colapses, or having a 4 cyl do the same job, easier.. perhaps lasting longer, it is an easy choice to make.) The NH boomers went to smaller engines in many of their models, compaired to the models they replced from the older 'boxy looking line'.

breaking in half with backhoes I have seen all brands do this not just New Hollands and it all comes down to the abuse they recieve from the customers. The original Class 3

 Again, I wasn't refering to OTHER brands.. but to the older FORD line, as compaired to the NH boomer line.
The boomers cary limitations on backhoes that did not appear on the older line of tractors. When asking the dealer about this, he stated plainly that the boomers were breaking in half more often.....
But yes... treatment does count in all respects. An idiot driving a new 250K$ tractor can tear it up in a day if someone lets him.

boomer put into service for test purposes has well over 7000 hours on it now with no major problems and it has been tested in all types of conditions.

That's good, as I'm particular to Ford/NH. Breakages from use and wear don't bother me when looking at tractor performance history. Even defects in materials/workmanship in small lots or limited runs don't bother me as much.... It is the design flaws/failures that really bother me... as the machine doesn't have a chance to do good from the start...

soundguy

Soundguy · Dec 10, 2002

When I replied earlier, I didnt have any specs to quote in front of me, now i do.

Ok, ford nh 1920
engine hp 33, pto 29 cyl/cid 4/122

tc33
eng hp 33, pto 29 cyl/cid 3/91

for comparisons sake, I found a mitsubishi mt 300

with a cyl/cid of 3/91 and it's pto hp is 26....

For the same hp on the ford units..... i'll take the bigger engine...
Less stress on the working parts per surface area unit, for the same rated HP. ( in this comparison rpm is irrelivant )
That was the point I was trying to make.

Soundguy

TresCrows · Dec 10, 2002

"Again, I wasn't refering to OTHER brands.. but to the older FORD line, as compaired to the NH boomer line."

but, since there is no "older Ford" brand units being built anymore I guess guys have to settle for a lowly Boomer. Poor things to be so unlucky, it must be terrible to own a Beautiful Blue Boomer. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif J

spencer200 · Dec 10, 2002

but the actual replacement for the 1920 is the tc35 not the tc33. the Tc33 is an extra model The Tc29 actually replaced the 1720. The Tc35 is still only 3 cylinder but much closer in Cid than the TC33. The Tc35, Tc40-45 where meant to replace the old class size of the 1920 with HP additions. I know people think that some of these replaced the 2120 but that replacement has not come out yet. They tell us in the spring now!

hazmat · Dec 10, 2002

Spencer,

I realized nobody has anwered the guys question. how is the $8K price?

Can you help us out. I don't think any of us have actually bought a 2WD TC18.