TC30 - Internal PTO gears won't stop/slow down

[chisel13]

Hello everyone,

My dad just bought a used TC30 w/ 80 hrs., but the owner's manual did not come with it. I don't know the year, but the battery says August '07. 9x3 transmission, with FWD.

We attached a rotary cutter today, had all gears in neutral with the clutch fully depressed. When I pushed the pto lever part way forward, there was lots of grinding since the internal pto gears never slowed down. Is this normal? Do the internal gears ever stop? It doesn't sound right to me. From what I've read about a live pto, most have a 2 stage-clutch that will stop the transmission when depressed halfway, and will stop the pto when fully depressed.

Does this tractor have a 2 stage clutch? Am I missing something?

Thank you for any help.
Paul

 

[JC-jetro]

Hello everyone,

My dad just bought a used TC30 w/ 80 hrs., but the owner's manual did not come with it. I don't know the year, but the battery says August '07. 9x3 transmission, with FWD.

We attached a rotary cutter today, had all gears in neutral with the clutch fully depressed. When I pushed the pto lever part way forward, there was lots of grinding since the internal pto gears never slowed down. Is this normal? Do the internal gears ever stop? It doesn't sound right to me. From what I've read about a live pto, most have a 2 stage-clutch that will stop the transmission when depressed halfway, and will stop the pto when fully depressed.

Does this tractor have a 2 stage clutch? Am I missing something?

Thank you for any help.
Paul

Paul,

TC30 comes with transmission driven PTO (single clutch), live PTO (Double clutch) and live with HST transmission. it appears from your ppost that you do not have HST transmission. It looks to me you might need a bit if adjustment. it might be that your throw out bearing is too far from the the pressure plate fingers and as a result all the way pressing of the clutch pedal still does not disengage the clutch hence gear grinding. The final pto shaft turns CCW (almost sure). With the engine " OFF" and PTO lever engaged you can have somebody to press the clutch halfway, at this point you should be able to only turn pto shaft in one direction only. with the clutch pressed all the way then the pto final shaft should turn freely in both direction. if it does not then the clutch needs to be adjusted. there should be a simple adjustment on the clutch pedal mechanism or free play adjustment. I'll adjust it and run the test again. Please make sure not to ever make the manual test with the engine " RUNNING" for the obvious reason.


JC,

 

[brin]

Paul,

TC30 comes with transmission driven PTO (single clutch), live PTO (Double clutch) and live with HST transmission. it appears from your ppost that you do not have HST transmission. It looks to me you might need a bit if adjustment. it might be that your throw out bearing is too far from the the pressure plate fingers and as a result all the way pressing of the clutch pedal still does not disengage the clutch hence gear grinding. The final pto shaft turns CCW (almost sure). With the engine " OFF" and PTO lever engaged you can have somebody to press the clutch halfway, at this point you should be able to only turn pto shaft in one direction only. with the clutch pressed all the way then the pto final shaft should turn freely in both direction. if it does not then the clutch needs to be adjusted. there should be a simple adjustment on the clutch pedal mechanism or free play adjustment. I'll adjust it and run the test again. Please make sure not to ever make the manual test with the engine " RUNNING" for the obvious reason.


JC,

I have a TC-29 D....Make sure your throttle is at idle and you depress the clutch before engaging the PTO...and as you pull the lever down if it start grinding then put the tractor in gear and slowly let the clutch out as you pull the PTO lever down and it should engage without grinding. Never attempt to engage the PTO ( Pull the Pto lever down ) unless you have the throttle at idle and the clutch in..Let us know if this solves it..

 

[chisel13]

JC,
Correct, the TC30 is not hydrostatic. And from what I read, a TC30 with FWD (which is what my dad has) should have the double clutch PTO. 2WD only has the single clutch PTO. Sorry I did not make that clear.

brin,
The throttle was at idle and the clutch was all the way in when I tried to engage the pto, that's why I was baffled. If JC's suggestion doesn't work, I'll try yours.

I have lots of experience using the PTO on a JD 7610, IH "M" & "666" but the live PTO with the double clutch is new to me.

Thank you both very much for the suggestions. I'll report back after adjusting and testing tomorrow.
Paul

 

[chisel13]

Update:
First, we checked the play in the clutch pedal, and it's approx. 3/4", so we thought that was within spec.

With engine off:
PTO engaged and no clutch, could not turn shaft.
PTO engaged and clutch halfway in, could not turn shaft.
PTO engaged and clutch all the way in, could not turn shaft.
Started engine, engaged PTO, pushed clutch all the way in, and shaft was still turning.

Those results led me to investigate under the clutch pedal, and there was a v-shaped bracket (bolted to the floor) to limit the clutch pedal travel. Up to this point, I never felt any difference in the clutch pedal resistance once it was past the initial play.

I removed the V bracket, and now the clutch pedal can be depressed much further. Result? It works like it's supposed to. Engine on and PTO engaged: 1/2 clutch - PTO turns and tractor stops (if moving), full clutch - PTO stops. I can distinctly feel the half way point in the clutch where I couldn't before.

I didn't measure it, but without the bracket the clutch moves maybe 8-10" and I never hit bottom with my leg fully extended. Could pressing the pedal too far past the half way point cause any damage to the clutch? It works like it's supposed to now, so my inclination is to leave the bracket off, but why was it installed in the first place??? Was it a mixup at the factory where the bracket is only installed on the 2WD models (which do not have a live PTO)?

Thanks again for everyone's help.

 

[JC-jetro]

Update:
First, we checked the play in the clutch pedal, and it's approx. 3/4", so we thought that was within spec.

With engine off:
PTO engaged and no clutch, could not turn shaft.
PTO engaged and clutch halfway in, could not turn shaft.
PTO engaged and clutch all the way in, could not turn shaft.
Started engine, engaged PTO, pushed clutch all the way in, and shaft was still turning.

Those results led me to investigate under the clutch pedal, and there was a v-shaped bracket (bolted to the floor) to limit the clutch pedal travel. Up to this point, I never felt any difference in the clutch pedal resistance once it was past the initial play.

I removed the V bracket, and now the clutch pedal can be depressed much further. Result? It works like it's supposed to. Engine on and PTO engaged: 1/2 clutch - PTO turns and tractor stops (if moving), full clutch - PTO stops. I can distinctly feel the half way point in the clutch where I couldn't before.

I didn't measure it, but without the bracket the clutch moves maybe 8-10" and I never hit bottom with my leg fully extended. Could pressing the pedal too far past the half way point cause any damage to the clutch? It works like it's supposed to now, so my inclination is to leave the bracket off, but why was it installed in the first place??? Was it a mixup at the factory where the bracket is only installed on the 2WD models (which do not have a live PTO)?

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Good. It appears that your PTO and transmission clutch work fine minus maybe some adjustment. My idea was correct that you do not keep the clutch pedal compressed enough to disengage the pto clutch disk. Why don't you take a pic of the bracket and share it with us. May be we can tell why the bracket is there. This is the best outcome for you By the way thee is no chance of damage other than clutch plates(both) are fully disengaged. I just would not ride the cluch too much as it is bad for pressure plate fingers and throwout bearing.

JC,

ps. Can you with the engine "OFF" and clutch pressed all the way turn the pto by hand and stop as soon as you let the clutch out halfway?

 

[chisel13]

JC,
The tractor is at my dad's farm, and since it's supposed to rain all week, I probably won't get a pic until next week. But I will test your p.s. question and post a pic.
Paul

 

[Ford850]

When I looked up the TC30 parts diagram on the NH site, it lists a "clutch stopper kit". Here's the description: "Clutch Stopper. Includes: Ref. 31-32, USED BEFORE PIN HK14260, REFER TO SERVICE BULLETIN 7/02-T3
SBA358020720"
I would talk to a dealer to find out the details of that service bulletin.

 

[chisel13]

That's the bracket. I'll find out the details of the SB and report back. Thanks!

 

[BeeferMan]

Sounds like that bracket was installed to limit the pedal/linkage movement, so I would *not* assume that you can not damage the clutch assembly by depressing the pedal fully until you know the full details of why that bracket was designed and installed!