TC33da - starting problems

[MikeBurr]

I have a 05 TC33da that is starting to blow the number 2 fuse when it is started. Does not happen all the time, just when I really want to get out and do somthing. Problem started about 3 months ago and I went through 4 10a fuses in about a month. The last time it happened, I replaced the 10amp with a 15amp fuse.

Other info - battery is now at lest 2 and a half years old. When the fuses blow, I first hear a click like the starter is engaging, but no spinning sounds that it normally makes when turning the engine over.

The 15a fuse worked real well until today when I tried to start it. Ran normally in the morning, came back to the house. Two hours later I went out to do some more work and the tractor would not start - heard the click but no engine turn over. Checked to make sure all the controls were in the 'start' position and retried to start again. NOGO. Opened the hood and checked the fuses, all were ok, even the 15a fuse. Tried again and blew the 15a fuse, when it blew, I'm sure I caused it to blow by holding the key in the starting position too long. I then replaced the 15a fuse and the tractor then started with no problems.

So I'm thinking that maybe the battery is getting weak and needs to be replaced, not enough power to fully engage the starter? Any thing else I would have to have the dealer check out.

I believe that the Optima 51R red top is correct battery for the 33da?

Also noticed lately that the glow plug light comes on longer that it use to when starting and that it will sometimes come back on shortly after the tractor first starts running. Don't know if leads to a different problem or not.

 

[dqdave1]

I think CNH has a bulletin on this; you will rewire with a new relay to starter. Call your dealer

 

[MikeBurr]

Talked to my dealer's service dept. - said that they get a 10amp resetable fuse and replace the current 10amp fuse, didn't know anything about rewiring the starter setup. Mainly make sure the lights and pto are off when restarting. If there is a maintenace sheet on the problem, how can I find out what it says and what is covered?

Still thinking of getting a new battery and in past post someone else suggested the optima 51R, I have looked on the net but can not find anyone selling the battery. Seems like the closest match now would be the Optima D51R yellow top. Also looking at a Odyssey PC95T battery. Anyone think that one is better that the other? Both are close to the same price and are sealed batteries.

 

[DocHeb]

The Class III Boomers have had similiar problems - and a similiar proposed solution with the circuit breaker. Recently Jim Inman (jinman) had a Fuse #2 that kept blowing, and found that the fuel cutoff solenoid had an internal short that was tripping the fuse.

Also, bad batteries causing increased amperage draws when starting tractor have been implicated.

 

[cardenharry]

Recently I posted concerning my DX 33 with a starting problem closely related to what you are saying.
(1) Would only click and not turn the engine over.
(2) Since the battery was about 3 years old I had it tested. They said it tested ok. Bought a new one anyway and installed and the tractor started.
(3) After about a week same problem. Removed the battery and put it on a little charger and reinstalled. It started the tractor.
(4) After another week or so it would only click again. Removed the battery and left it on the small charger longer this time. Installed and it started the tractor. I used the tractor for a few hours running a bush hog which should have left it charged pretty good. I have not had a red light at any time indicating the alternator not operating properly. Only have just under 200 hours on the tractor.
(5) After driving about 5 miles from my house and running the bush hog I shut the engine off to drink a coke before returning home. The tractor would not start. I put cables from my truck and it still would not start. I started my truck engine and then the tractor started.
(6) The next time it failed to start I rocked the hydrostat pedal back and forth and the tractor started. I must point out that it does not fail to start every time and it does not fail after sitting. Sometimes it has failed when I have shut down while working. For the last three or four times it has started after I rocked the hydrostat pedal. I don't know what that does or if it is just an accident.

I have wondered it the group 51 batteries are too small. All that I have looked at have just over 500 CCA and that is the group size shown for these tractors.

When I posted about this problem before someone else said they have the same problem but have use a temporary fix by keeping the battery plugged to a maintaince charger. I don't have elec in my barn or perhaps I might do this.

My problem seems the same as the one posted in this thread except I have not noticed any change in the glow plug light and I have not blown a fuse. Also, I have not held the switch turned for a long period that could cause this problem.

Perhaps someone like Jinman or someone with a good knowledge of these tractors put these symptoms together and suggest a fix.
thanks..

 

[thclimer]

cardenharry,

I too have had my share of starting problems and while my TC33D is starting fine now I suspect my problem lies with the ignition switch, or a loose wire. I have purchased a much more robust ignition switch, but have not swapped it out yet. I wish when I had my switch torn apart I had taken a picture to post, showing everyone just how flimsy they are. I've pulled a muscle in my back so its really not conducive to swapping the ignition switch right now and since its working, you know the saying "If it ant broke don't fix it" The day it doesn't work is when I'll be out in the barn swapping that flimsy switch out.

I hope you can find your problem. Certainly, if the battery voltage is lower than normal any loose connections could contribute to blowing fuses or the connection might just not be made.

 

[Typhoon]

If you want to permanently solve your starting problems, here is what you have to do. You need to do both of these, because there are 2 weak links and if you only do one or the other, you have only solved 50% of the problem. First, replace the factory ignition switch. I have to say that I love everything about my Boomer, except the factory ignition switch. It is cheap, plastic, junk. Once you remove it, take it apart and you will see the small plastic pieces inside that are melted from heat, and the weak little springs and bent contacts. I am surprised it worked at all. Next, replace your battery with an Optima. Optima batteries are: 1. Gel Cell, therefore there is never any leakage, no acid sloshing around inside, and they can even be ran upside down. 2. They are more efficient.. therefore they will last longer, and provide more CCA when needed. 3.The most amazing thing about an Optima... they do NOT corrode around the terminals like most lead acid batteries do. I was told this, but could not hardly believe it until I owned one and saw it for myself. I just pulled my terminal caps off to check them, and after having the battery installed for a year, there is zero corrosion. The terminals look like they did when I bought the battery. That means that you always have great terminal contact, hence more current to starter. I also remember Optima batteries being in the airplanes that I flew in flight school, if that says anything about them. Do these two things, and your starting problems will be no more. I did these fixes a year ago after 2 years of starting problems. Since, my tractor has not failed to start once.
I couldnt get the Red Top Optima, so I got the Yellow Top. I cannot remember the number on it, but I can get it if you are interested. Good luck!

 

[Jsheds]

The dealer where I bought my tractor (Charles S. Snyder Inc.) claims to have discovered the cause for this problem and the fix. I talked to the service department and they provided me with all the parts and a diagram to install a relay for the starter. I have installed the 'kit' and haven't had any trouble since. Prior to that I didn't know if it would start or not, though replacing the fuse with a circuit breaker made it functional most of the time.

The relay is pretty simple to install, but fat fingers do not help. The atached pic shows what they sent me.
Jim

 

[thclimer]

The relay is pretty simple to install, but fat fingers do not help. The atached pic shows what they sent me.
Jim

Jim,

Any chance you can describe what the pieces of paper have on them. The relay looks similar to others in our tractor such as the Neutral Start and PTO Safety Start Relay. I guess what I'm looking for where/how in the circuit do you connect the new relay.

Thanks, Tim

 

[Jsheds]

Here a a few better pictures;
1 - Instructions from the dealer.
2 - Instructions with relay pin numbers.
3 - Disconnect the battery and remove the cable from the stud on the starter.
4 - Take the 'purple' wire off the starter solenoid. It looks tan to me.
6 - I installed the relay base under the plastic on the left side.
7 - Connect the blue wire from the relay base to the starter solenoid.
8 - Connect the 'purple' wire from the starter solenoid to the white wire on the relay base.
9 - You need a large ring terminal on the fused (40 Amp!) red wire from the relay base.
10 - The red wire gets bolted onto the starter stud.
11 - Relay installed and wiring bundled.
12 - Connect the black wire to ground.

It would make a lot of sense to remove the loader before tackling this project. Others have reported problems with the key switch, but this has solved my starting problems.

Jim