TC55 Steering Problems Fixed?

[Boomerang1]

Weight behind the rear axle has nothing to do with weight transfer. The front axle is the fulcrum. If you had enough weight in the bucket so the rear tires were 1/2'' off the ground, all the weight of the machine and load (gross weight) would be on the front axle. If you add weight at any point behind the front axle you are transfering weight to the rear of the machine. Try this for yourself. Pick up a load so the rear tires lift off the ground and let the tractor balance that way, set the park brake and dismount the tractor. What do you think would happen?

(In the following example the teeter totter fulcrum represents the tractor font axle and the weight on the end represents the tractor rear axle.)

Balance a teeter totter with a 100# weight on each end. Add a 100# weight to one end at any point between the fulcrum and the original 100# weight. The heavy end will drop. But, If you didn't move the weight towards the end far enough to make the heavy end touch the gound, the fulcrum will still be carrying the gross weight of the teeter totter. If you move the weight far enough so the heavy end is now resting on the ground, the gross weight is shared by the fulcrum and the weight on the end wich is resting on the ground.This means that the fulcrum now has less weight on it because the gross weight is being shared by two points. Plus there is still a 100# weight on the end that is in the air. (This 100# weight could represent the loaded bucket.) At no time did we extend the length of the teeter totter to acheive weight transfer.
Some of you may be thinking of effective weight transfer. The further the weight is moved to the rear, the more effect it has. That is why a 450# weight hung from the 3 point hitch arms gives an effective weight of 600#s

Remember, when you start adding weight behind the rear axle, the rear axle now becomes the fulcrum. Believe it or not.

 

[IH3444]

I thought making the rear axle the fulcrum point, was the whole point of adding a rear ballast. Thanks for pointing this out, I believe many have missed this point, and your explaination is perfect.

 

[whitetiger]

This week we put an approx 3000# weight package ( I forget exact weight )on the rear of a 9484 Versatile. After installing the weights we reweighed front and rear axles. With the kit installed we gained 425 LBS more on our rear axle and lost 425 from our font axle just like the manuel stated.
Adding weight behind the rear axle transfers weight from front to rear.
We did not change the length of his tractor either.

 

[Roto]

Im still thinking on this one, I think adding fluid in rear tires does put more weight on the ground for rear traction and makes it less likely to lift back end off the ground when heavy in bucket but i still dont think it takes weight off the front axle. To take weight off front axle i believe you would need to add weight behind rear axle and even though front is fulcrum in this example adding weight on either end will only add weight to the front axle. If your balancing on the front axle then adding weight to either end will only add to the front axle weight unless you can get another fulcrum point like the rear axle and add weight behind that.

teeter totter put 100# on both sides with a scale under the center balancing point and now add 100# to either end and see if scale shows less. It wont. It will get heavier. Front axle is the center point of the teeter totter.

Mike

 

[Doc_Bob]

teeter totter put 100# on both sides with a scale under the center balancing point and now add 100# to either end and see if scale shows less. It wont. It will get heavier. Front axle is the center point of the teeter totter.

Mike

Pull a wheelbarrow out of your garage and lift up the rear ever so slightly. Watch the front tire start to compress. Then put the rear support back onto the ground, watch the front tire decompress.
Bob

 

[whitetiger]

Im still thinking on this one, I think adding fluid in rear tires does put more weight on the ground for rear traction and makes it less likely to lift back end off the ground when heavy in bucket but i still dont think it takes weight off the front axle. To take weight off front axle i believe you would need to add weight behind rear axle and even though front is fulcrum in this example adding weight on either end will only add weight to the front axle.

As proved with the Versatile, adding weight to the rear of the tractor which is behind the rear axle will remove weight from the front axle. It the weight removed from the front axle is added to the rear axle also. Total tractor weight only increases as much as the weight package but weight on the rear axle gains what the front lost.
As with the wheel barrow, with it setting on the ground, push down on the handles and see what happens. The front will get lighter and the weight on the stands will gain the weight until the wheel is off the ground. The gross weight of the wheel barrow did not change, just that the weight was moved from front to rear.

 

[meledward23]

I am not going to bother with the Fulcrum, Lever, Statics discussion.

As far as the tractor is concerned. I have had a TC-55da for 2 years now. And I occasionaly run into the problem that is mentioned in regards to steering. I got to experience this on Sunday this past weeked. In short:


I was picking up on und of a Gazebo other end was suspended by ropes and pulleys. The tractor handles this load with relative ease (probably withing a few hundred pounds of capacity). The rear of my tractor just about never leaves the ground, and certainly not when lifting something with the backhoe on this machine. That is one heavy attachment (Please Note expereinces are no different with the backhoe than when I used to use a 480lb bock blade). Anyway most of the day the tractor will pick up and move the structure twisting and turning with no problem. Then it locks up, no matter how strong you are you will not move the front end.

As I have said before, with my tractor, it is always a temporary problem. This time I got an opportunity to investigate a little more as I was only a few inches from setting the structure and the tractor had to go a particular direction.

If I throttled to max power no difference except you get a power sterring type of whine from the tractor. Usually jiggling the steering wheel fixes the problem but not this time. So something was different. The difference was I had that brake slammed to the ground because I didnt want to roll back. I lifted my foot, allow the tractor to move half and inch(okay a minimal distance, no tape measure was used) and gave the steering column= a jiggle and we had steering again.

I had this happen twice to me this weekend. Like I have said before, for me it has never been a real problem. This time it appeared that the only way I get a full lock down on steering is at a standstill. and there are few instances that I steer at a stand still, and in most of them I do not have this problem.

In closing The number of times the front end has locked up for a few seconds only to be freed with a jiggle is probably 10-15 times out of thousands of loader trips...(exaggeration , probably only a few hundred loader trips).


Well, take that for what it is worht. One man's experience with this tractor.

 

[Roto]

all i know is this, put weight behind the rear wheels and it takes weight off from the front like i said and put weight in the rear wheels it will not take weight off the front like i said. Wheel barrow is good example of adding weight behind the rear wheels of a tractor with the rear wheels being the metal feet of wheel barrow. handles are behind it so adding weight or pushing them down decreases from front axle. But put weight in the wheel barrow or dirctly on top of the metal feet and you wont take weight off the front wheel. I thought i read where someone said that loaded tires would take weight off from the front axle and i disagree but maybe i didnt read such a thing.

mike

 

[Soundguy]

The teeter totter is not a good analogy, as there are 2 fulcrums in the tractor case.. front or rear axle. I do believe ( have experienced ) if you weighted the 3pt lift down enough.. you could raise the front end of fthe ground.. this blows the single fulcrum teeter totter theory all to bits.

Take a yanmar 1700, install longer ford rear 3pt lift arms.. add a 30" KK dirt scoop, and grab the biggest bit you can.. shift to forward and let the clutch out faster than normal... the front wheels come right of f the ground. I had to add 100#+ weight to my front axle to keep the fronts touching the ground... glad I know how to steer with brakes..

Soundguy

Weight behind the rear axle has nothing to do with weight transfer. The front axle is the fulcrum. If you had enough weight in the bucket so the rear tires were 1/2'' off the ground, all the weight of the machine and load (gross weight) would be on the front axle. If you add weight at any point behind the front axle you are transfering weight to the rear of the machine. Try this for yourself. Pick up a load so the rear tires lift off the ground and let the tractor balance that way, set the park brake and dismount the tractor. What do you think would happen?

(In the following example the teeter totter fulcrum represents the tractor font axle and the weight on the end represents the tractor rear axle.)

Balance a teeter totter with a 100# weight on each end. Add a 100# weight to one end at any point between the fulcrum and the original 100# weight. The heavy end will drop. But, If you didn't move the weight towards the end far enough to make the heavy end touch the gound, the fulcrum will still be carrying the gross weight of the teeter totter. If you move the weight far enough so the heavy end is now resting on the ground, the gross weight is shared by the fulcrum and the weight on the end wich is resting on the ground.This means that the fulcrum now has less weight on it because the gross weight is being shared by two points. Plus there is still a 100# weight on the end that is in the air. (This 100# weight could represent the loaded bucket.) At no time did we extend the length of the teeter totter to acheive weight transfer.
Some of you may be thinking of effective weight transfer. The further the weight is moved to the rear, the more effect it has. That is why a 450# weight hung from the 3 point hitch arms gives an effective weight of 600#s

Remember, when you start adding weight behind the rear axle, the rear axle now becomes the fulcrum. Believe it or not.

 

[Roto]

My buddy has a few farmall H's and he loves to pop wheelies with those with no weight on the back and i dont think the tires are loaded. he just pops clutch and brings front of the ground 2 or 3 feet sometimes more.

Mike