Teach me....metal shops

[RET]

Good folks,
This has been discussed many times, but am attempting to learn even more....
I am saving my nickels and dimes in an attempt to purchase a shop sometime this year. I'm completely out of storage room and my 'toy' collection keeps growing.
Here's generally what I'm aiming for:
Size: 30X40 to 30X50 ballpark; probably 10' side walls. probably no insulation....neighbor has not had any problems with condensation this winter so far.
Material: galvalume. I think code will call for 90-100 mph or so wind loading, and obviously zero snow loading.
Doors: roll up door on each end, 10X8 or so, walk in door on front side corner. No windows. need ridge vents (hot La. summers).

Now for questions:
Have any of you bought metal bldg's from web sites? What are some of your favorite brands? Least favorite? Galvalume sheeting thickness preferences (seems like 26 ga. is std.)?
What about sky light panels? My neighbor didn't get them on his shop due to concerns that they would not last...so his shop is a little on the dark side during the day, forcing him to use lots of electrical lighting. Do translucent skylight panels hold up to the sun's UV?
Any words of wisdom (do this, don't do this, etc, etc)?
Lastly....due to lack of time, I may have to have it installed rather than doing it myself. What kind of labor cost might I estimate (1/2 of material cost?, 2/3? more?). I will have dirt hauled in myself and do as much foundation prep as I can with my BX2200 so as to minimize concrete contractor charges. I will do a lot of the elect. wiring myself to minimize electrician charges. Will be pouring an additional 150' x10'w of conrete driveway and some additional pad (say 30X20) in front of the shop. Anybody have a good guesstimate on going ft^2 rate for installed concrete these days? Fiber filled conrete or rebar? Or, to be really safe, both? Remember, I'm in deep south, flat ground, no freezing.
Thanks for any words of wisdom! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
roger

 

[Glenn9643]

RET,
I can't help much with packaged metal buildings, but it sounds like you probably could get an idea from local contractors pretty quick, especially if you're going to hire it done. I've built three shops in the past twenty years, but all were stick framed with galvalume roof. Two had 26 guage, and one 29 guage. I think the 29g is OK here, but your lathing can't exceed 24" spacing and you need to keep your feet on or near the lathe support when walking on it. I used T111 siding on the first shop, 1x12 white oak B&B on the second, and the last one has "hardi-plank", which is my favorite. I don't know about the sky light panels. I found that windows weren't very expensive and help a lot with light. Also used cold weather 8' flourescent fixtures from Lowe's. A little pricey but give good light in all conditions. A ceiling and insulation won't cost much more and will make the shop much more comfortable throughout the year. As far as the reinforcement in your concrete... Around here problems with concrete cracking isn't from ground heave associated with freezing or thawing, but from some of the clay soils movement as the moisture changes from season to season. Problems with this will be determined by the soils in your area. I believe they are generally overcome by additional "footings" throughout the slab area with added rebars/fiber in the mix.
You didn't really indicate your uses for the new building other than storage, but in case you are into woodworking you might consider running duct underneath the slab for a dust collection system and electrical conduits with plugins in the floor for saws, etc. This really helps in keeping power cords, etc. out of the way in the shop. If so, don't use anything less than 6"duct! I used 4" and it works, but not as well as it should.

 

[gsganzer]

I know you live in the south, but I'm still going to try to talk you into adding insulation. I live in N. TX and my shop was uninsulated (previous owner). In the summer, you can feel the heat radiating through the metal sides (like standing in front of an infrared heater). In the winter, it can be a little cold and require a forced air heater to make it comfortable to work in. The insulation is cheap to add during the initial construction (probably add $1000 to the initial cost).

Also, make sure you run water to your shop. My shop is 30 x 40 and feels like a good size. The 10' sidewalls are good, 12 feet is better. Also, make sure they put a vapor barrier under the concrete. I'd also epoxy coat the concrete floor, to minimize oil stains and such.

Rhino buildings has a good package.

 

[ManofMystery]

Roger,

I bought a metal building kit from Miracle Steel. I am in the process of erecting it. It is 30x32 feet, with 14-foot eaves (about 20 feet high in the center). It has a 14x14 door in the front, and a person-sized door in the back.

The kit comes with all the structural members, trim pieces, hardware, and painted sheet metal. You buy lumber locally for the girts (2x6s on the sides, parallel to the ground) and purlins (2x8s on the roof). My building kit cost me about $12,000 and the lumber cost me $1500. The price of the building included the charge to have it shipped to my building site (I am in Southern California).

I did the grading myself, but I rented a large tractor to do it. Then, I paid a grading contractor to redo it ($3000), because the county insisted on a soil report. I was pretty mad about that at the time, but when the grading contractor was done, the site had dropped about three feet! You can't compact soil properly with a small tractor, not in a month of Sundays.

I have done concrete work before, but I opted to have a local concrete guy do the slab ($10,000). I specified the mud--big rock, six-sack, fibermesh admixture. The foundation plan (which you have to do yourself) specified 3/8 rebar on 16" centers.

San Diego County requires that the foundation plan be signed off by a civil engineer. I had one guy a plan ($600), but it was way overkill, so I ended up paying another guy to do another plan.

My permit fees were about $1500.

I recommend Miracle Steel. You can do the work yourself if you want, but it can be slow going. If time is at all a factor, consider hiring a construction crew that has done this sort of thing before. It is not like building a wood framed structure. There's a lot of leveling and squaring and plumbing and truing that needs to be done carefully, and an poorly supervised crew will not do it right.

You can see the Miracle Steel products here.

 

[GareyD]

RET...I also bought a Miracle Steel building 26 x 36 x 10...Hired a cherry picker to place the top irons on the uprights, then my wife and I assembled the rest of the building in a 3 day weekend...all we had to be careful about was locating/drilling the hole positions to bolt the uprights down /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Definitely insulate a steel building...for the first 2 years, mine wasn't insulated and my buddy's and I called it the 60-65 shop...under 60 degrees outside and it was chilly in the shop...over 65 and yes, you could feel the heat radiating off the steel...didn't create many opportunities for enjoyable "shop time" /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

If you are not in a major hurry, Miracle Steel usually has overstocks around the end of the year...pay for them upon ordering, then have it shipped when the weather clears...my 26x36 was only like $6,800 when I did it this way...of course, this was like 5 years ago.

The buildings are red iron beams, 26 guage galvalumed steel, 100 mph wind shear, several equipment and man door options...and can have additions ordered/added at a later date.

Hope this helps
GareyD

 

[RET]

Gents,
Thanks for the comments. I'm going to go to some of the sites you recommended and do a little 'window shopping'. I'm not in a hurry....just wanted to start learning a little more in-depth about the choices and get some words of wisdom so when the time comes, I will be able to make some educated decisions.

Manofmystery....Looks like you nearly paid as much to the state of Cal. for fees, permits, etc. as you did for the parts and hired labor to build the darn thing! So, explain to me again how Cal. got deeper in debt than the federal gov? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ya'll do have a good point about insulation. I was over at my neighbors new shop a few days ago doing some woodworking honey do's on some tools I ain't got. It was a cold (that would be 50 degF in S. La.) and windy. I had to really stay busy to stay barely comfortable. And I'll get to see just what kind of oven his shop will become when summer gets here and temp's in in 90's every day with 110% human-didity. I'm guessing now that I may go ahead and opt for the insulation!

My neighbor did his 30X40 shop for a whopping total of $10 grand! ~$6k for the building kit, friends and neighbors to help put it up. Only hired labor was for the concrete slab (I spread about thriteen 6-yd loads of dirt for him with my BX....that was my contribution to the effort).

I like the idea of under-slab wiring with floor outlets...didn't think 'bout that before. And I sure didn't think about PVC pipe under the slab for the vac system. I'm DEFINITELY going to keep those ideas on the 1st page of the want list.

Shop uses - storage (tractor, misc. lawn equip, travel trailer),.wood working equipement, misc. new toys I'm sure I'll buy to fill up any remaining space, etc.

Ok, I'm always too long winded. Going to bed now.
Thanks!
roger

 

[jmc]

RET,

Had a friend that bought a house that included a non-insulated, steel roofed pole barn. He had to spray-foam the ceiling because, under certain conditions, the condensation would drip from the ceiling.

With regard to site compaction using a compact tractor, I had good luck on my first barn (clay for fill). I think the pressure under the front tires with a FEL full of dirt is much higher than under the tracks of a dozer that some contractors like to use for compaction. That and not trying to compact too much thickness at a time. With our clay, if its too dry its too hard and if its too wet, it moves horizontally rather than vertically. You have to pick the weather.

Good luck.

John

 

[reb]

RET

You said you would probably go with 10' walls. If you decide to instead go with a quonset style, follow the manufacturer's suggestion to set the walls into a channel cast into the foundation. A neighbor and I both didn't with ours and found water leaks along the bottom.

reb

 

[MF1455v]

RET, have you contacted Mueller Inc . They have a good web site and also have an store in Baton Rouge. I have done business with these guys at there Sherman Tx store and they are very helpful. I have found there prices to be very competitive. They also have fork lift delivery.

 

[BB_TX]

I put up a 30'x40' Mueller building 3 years ago. The standard building had 12' walls with low pitched roof. I wanted a 4/12 roof so I ordered a kit with the walls at 10'. I bought the pre-fab bolt up kit (you can also get a weldup kit). I am very happy with the building and Mueller. Had some help putting up the main frame members and the roof panels. Otherwise I did it by myself after work and on weekends. See attached.
The standard kit was about $5500 as I remember. But I wanted insulation, an extra 10'x10' roll up door, 3 windows, insulation, extended overhanging eaves all around, and gutters. Total came to about $9500 + slab. Due to foundation problems around here, I had the contractor put in an extra good slab (40 yards of concrete with extra steel) for a little over $6000.
Mueller web site is good to review sizing and pricing options.