CT_Tree_Guy
Platinum Member
Nice post??
TEST DROVE 4720 W/CAB & 5030 W/CAB
- Thread starter Chase
- Start date
- Views: 7352
RedDog
Platinum Member
Yes, I liked what he had to say.
Who wouldn't want the extra's on the Deere, as long as it didn't cost you an arm and leg.
My dealer was here yesterday, and I told him that I was "considering" a cab tractor. The Deere priced a little to much for my taste though. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif But boy does it look good!! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
RedDog
Who wouldn't want the extra's on the Deere, as long as it didn't cost you an arm and leg.
My dealer was here yesterday, and I told him that I was "considering" a cab tractor. The Deere priced a little to much for my taste though. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif But boy does it look good!! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
RedDog
Kyle_in_Tex
Super Star Member
I love these good ole snot slingin' slobberknocker threads! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The 5030 is a great tractor that has set a standard. I feel that JD knew what the standard was and made sure they surpassed it JD style. Time will tell if they are as reliable as the 5030. JD spends a bunch of dinedo($$$) on R&D. I would not be afraid to buy either.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( With dual pedals, you have to stretch out and push the Reverse pedal forward)</font> The pedals are situated side by side. Your heal rests on the flat platform just like it does in almost EVERY type of car or truck you can buy nowadays. You don't have to do any tricky stuff to use your brakes. In fact, if you are in a hairy situation, (and I'll show you one if you bring YOUR tractor over here) you can keep your left foot handily on top of the brake pedals just in case.
You might want to ask DARGO about his treadle...
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I have no idea what I would use the increased implement hydraulics for on a CUT. )</font>
Log splitter, hydraulic Harley rake, baler, faster FEL speed, etc...
My opinion on the tranny's. Both are good, but I feel that Loadmatch is an invaluable feature that can't honestly be evaluated or appreciated until many hours have been spent with it. I can get off the 4310 doing dirt work with Loadmatch on and hop on the 5420 and stall it the 1st and 2nd time if I'm not paying close attention. This happens until I put the hand throttle on about 1500RPM. Of course I'm moving a yard instead of a double wheelbarrow load.
The 5030 is a great tractor that has set a standard. I feel that JD knew what the standard was and made sure they surpassed it JD style. Time will tell if they are as reliable as the 5030. JD spends a bunch of dinedo($$$) on R&D. I would not be afraid to buy either.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( With dual pedals, you have to stretch out and push the Reverse pedal forward)</font> The pedals are situated side by side. Your heal rests on the flat platform just like it does in almost EVERY type of car or truck you can buy nowadays. You don't have to do any tricky stuff to use your brakes. In fact, if you are in a hairy situation, (and I'll show you one if you bring YOUR tractor over here) you can keep your left foot handily on top of the brake pedals just in case.
You might want to ask DARGO about his treadle...
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I have no idea what I would use the increased implement hydraulics for on a CUT. )</font>
Log splitter, hydraulic Harley rake, baler, faster FEL speed, etc...
My opinion on the tranny's. Both are good, but I feel that Loadmatch is an invaluable feature that can't honestly be evaluated or appreciated until many hours have been spent with it. I can get off the 4310 doing dirt work with Loadmatch on and hop on the 5420 and stall it the 1st and 2nd time if I'm not paying close attention. This happens until I put the hand throttle on about 1500RPM. Of course I'm moving a yard instead of a double wheelbarrow load.
cowboydoc
Super Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2000
- Messages
- 6,725
- Tractor
- JD 8320 MFWD, JD 6415 MFWD, FEL, and cab, John Deere MFWD 4600, John Deere 4020, John Deere 4430, John Deere 455 mower, Deutz, and Gehl 4610 perkins skidsteer
Riptides,
Called a friend who has a kubota dealership and asked him about the price difference between the two. He was busy earlier but just called me back and said equipped as close to the 4720 as he could the Kubota would be about $1800 less if you're talking MSRP to MSRP on the two. The loader was less by $800 for the Deere he said. So if you're talking about a tractor with a loader MSRP to MSRP the 4720 is a $1000 more. From there it all depends on who gets you the best deal.
And just for the record. I am not bad mouthing the 5030 at all when I say the deere is superior. What I mean by that is comparing all the extra features, hp, hydraulics, etc. the Deere, in my opinion, is the superior machine. Much of what is offered on the 4720 isn't even offered on the 5030. As far as both of them going out and running and being reliable I think they are both superior machines. With regard to the 5030 as a tractor I think it's a great little tractor and until the 4720 came along it was superior to anything out there with regard to a cab tractor in the compact line. I just think the 4720 trumps it by quite a bit with regard to the new cab, extra features and power.
Called a friend who has a kubota dealership and asked him about the price difference between the two. He was busy earlier but just called me back and said equipped as close to the 4720 as he could the Kubota would be about $1800 less if you're talking MSRP to MSRP on the two. The loader was less by $800 for the Deere he said. So if you're talking about a tractor with a loader MSRP to MSRP the 4720 is a $1000 more. From there it all depends on who gets you the best deal.
And just for the record. I am not bad mouthing the 5030 at all when I say the deere is superior. What I mean by that is comparing all the extra features, hp, hydraulics, etc. the Deere, in my opinion, is the superior machine. Much of what is offered on the 4720 isn't even offered on the 5030. As far as both of them going out and running and being reliable I think they are both superior machines. With regard to the 5030 as a tractor I think it's a great little tractor and until the 4720 came along it was superior to anything out there with regard to a cab tractor in the compact line. I just think the 4720 trumps it by quite a bit with regard to the new cab, extra features and power.
CT_Tree_Guy
Platinum Member
<font color="blue">I love these good ole snot slingin' slobberknocker threads! </font>
LOL - well Kyle, stay tuned then, cuz you ain't seen nothin' yet /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
LOL - well Kyle, stay tuned then, cuz you ain't seen nothin' yet /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
CT_Tree_Guy
Platinum Member
Well, I'm not re-writing this, so here goes. And please bear in mind, I'm obviously not denying anyone the right to an opinion or I'd have to keep my mouth shut, and that isn't too likely. But I am kinda particular about HOW they express those opinions.
*********************
Nice post??
From Webter's New World Dictionary:
nice: 6. a) agreeable; pleasant; delightful. b) attractive; pretty. c) kind; thoughtful; considerate. d) modest; well-mannered; reserved. e) in good taste.
Cowboydoc: Please do not interpret silence on my part as a tacit approval the way you are expressing your opinions. It is the WAY that you are expressing your opinions that I find objectionable and in violation of the standards of this forum. You can say what you want to say without "getting in someone's face", or making statements like
"there's no question that the 4720 is far superior to the 5030 in every way".
To me, this seems a clear violation of Muhammad's posting rule: 3. Excessive and/or mindless promotion of "your brand" will not be tolerated. If you do this, your messages will be removed and you could face account suspension or deletion.
As to: "I'm really kind of confused as to what the comparison is":
Is 2980 lbs of 3-point lift less than 2500 lbs? is a 75.4" wheelbase shorter than a 71.5" wheelbase? Is 1764 lbs. of lift, <font color="red"> 500 mm forward </font> less than 1657 lbs. of lift <font color="red"> 500 mm forward </font>? Is 40 degrees of bucket rollback less than 31 degrees of rollback? Is a Cat. 2 3ph smaller than a Cat. 1? Are you still confused?
It's all fine to say "The lifting capacity isn't really an issue." Why is that? And what does that even mean? That yes, the Kubota will lift more, but you can't accept that as a fact, if it is indeed a fact? As far as "do a search on how [lifting capacity is measured] and you can read about it all night" - thanks, but no thanks. I've read enough posts, probably tens of thousands of them, and I was comparing the two loaders at the same point anyway.
As to comparing an RTV to a gator HPX, I have no interest in, or need, to do so. I have only so many heartbeats on this planet, and I'm already spending way too many trying to explain why I don't like the way you're expressing yourself.
As to: "the Deere will lift all the Kubota will". How? What is the basis for that statement? That sure sounds like "excessive and/or mindless promotion of "your brand"" to me. Measure it where you will, but the 5030's 3ph sure sounds as if it will lift more than the 4720's, and I will offer $1,000 to anyone whose factory, unmodified 400 loader will pick up more than my 853 will. And this is not "mindless brand loyalty" talking, it is physics.
It is also not "mindless loyalty" to be of the opinion that there is a considerable body of evidence that shows that the Kubota hydro will very likely be more trouble-free than the Deere. This observation is not just based on the well-documented problems with the 4000 Ten series ehydros, but also on studying hundreds of posts on this forum. For kicks, do a search on "deere (and) hydrostatic (and) problem" , and then a search on "kubota (and) hydrostatic (and) problem", with variations like "hydro", "trouble", etc. Read carefully, and come to your own conclusion about which is more trouble-free. The Kubota system is simple, astonishingly reliable, and smooth as silk. Bells and whistles are great, but they do break. As some one said, I'll take my hydro "straight up" please, hold the electronics.
Is the cab better on the Deere? Sure as heck sounds like it. Does it have many added features that the Kubota doesn't have, like a quieter cab, pressurized cabin, PowerMatch, electronic cruise control, standard work lights, turbo, more hydraulic flow, bigger fuel tank, and an air seat, to name a few? You betcha it does.
Does that mean that "there's no question that the 4720 is far superior to the 5030 in every way"?
No way. Not even close. That statement is patently false, and any reasonable person would have to agree that it is. And any reasonable person who knowingly posts a false statement is in violation of another forum rule:
"Posting or uploading material that is false or inaccurate".
So - "Excessive and/or mindless promotion of "your brand" will not be tolerated. If you do this, your messages will be removed and you could face account suspension or deletion" and:
"Please report any abuse of these guidelines in the Feedback Forum, or to me directly via private message".
I am sorely tempted to.
*********************
Nice post??
From Webter's New World Dictionary:
nice: 6. a) agreeable; pleasant; delightful. b) attractive; pretty. c) kind; thoughtful; considerate. d) modest; well-mannered; reserved. e) in good taste.
Cowboydoc: Please do not interpret silence on my part as a tacit approval the way you are expressing your opinions. It is the WAY that you are expressing your opinions that I find objectionable and in violation of the standards of this forum. You can say what you want to say without "getting in someone's face", or making statements like
"there's no question that the 4720 is far superior to the 5030 in every way".
To me, this seems a clear violation of Muhammad's posting rule: 3. Excessive and/or mindless promotion of "your brand" will not be tolerated. If you do this, your messages will be removed and you could face account suspension or deletion.
As to: "I'm really kind of confused as to what the comparison is":
Is 2980 lbs of 3-point lift less than 2500 lbs? is a 75.4" wheelbase shorter than a 71.5" wheelbase? Is 1764 lbs. of lift, <font color="red"> 500 mm forward </font> less than 1657 lbs. of lift <font color="red"> 500 mm forward </font>? Is 40 degrees of bucket rollback less than 31 degrees of rollback? Is a Cat. 2 3ph smaller than a Cat. 1? Are you still confused?
It's all fine to say "The lifting capacity isn't really an issue." Why is that? And what does that even mean? That yes, the Kubota will lift more, but you can't accept that as a fact, if it is indeed a fact? As far as "do a search on how [lifting capacity is measured] and you can read about it all night" - thanks, but no thanks. I've read enough posts, probably tens of thousands of them, and I was comparing the two loaders at the same point anyway.
As to comparing an RTV to a gator HPX, I have no interest in, or need, to do so. I have only so many heartbeats on this planet, and I'm already spending way too many trying to explain why I don't like the way you're expressing yourself.
As to: "the Deere will lift all the Kubota will". How? What is the basis for that statement? That sure sounds like "excessive and/or mindless promotion of "your brand"" to me. Measure it where you will, but the 5030's 3ph sure sounds as if it will lift more than the 4720's, and I will offer $1,000 to anyone whose factory, unmodified 400 loader will pick up more than my 853 will. And this is not "mindless brand loyalty" talking, it is physics.
It is also not "mindless loyalty" to be of the opinion that there is a considerable body of evidence that shows that the Kubota hydro will very likely be more trouble-free than the Deere. This observation is not just based on the well-documented problems with the 4000 Ten series ehydros, but also on studying hundreds of posts on this forum. For kicks, do a search on "deere (and) hydrostatic (and) problem" , and then a search on "kubota (and) hydrostatic (and) problem", with variations like "hydro", "trouble", etc. Read carefully, and come to your own conclusion about which is more trouble-free. The Kubota system is simple, astonishingly reliable, and smooth as silk. Bells and whistles are great, but they do break. As some one said, I'll take my hydro "straight up" please, hold the electronics.
Is the cab better on the Deere? Sure as heck sounds like it. Does it have many added features that the Kubota doesn't have, like a quieter cab, pressurized cabin, PowerMatch, electronic cruise control, standard work lights, turbo, more hydraulic flow, bigger fuel tank, and an air seat, to name a few? You betcha it does.
Does that mean that "there's no question that the 4720 is far superior to the 5030 in every way"?
No way. Not even close. That statement is patently false, and any reasonable person would have to agree that it is. And any reasonable person who knowingly posts a false statement is in violation of another forum rule:
"Posting or uploading material that is false or inaccurate".
So - "Excessive and/or mindless promotion of "your brand" will not be tolerated. If you do this, your messages will be removed and you could face account suspension or deletion" and:
"Please report any abuse of these guidelines in the Feedback Forum, or to me directly via private message".
I am sorely tempted to.
Those are two great machines (4720, 5030). Spec wise the JD has a definite edge but the quality of the older design kub. may be more proven. I too have owned many tractors over many years starting with a 1950 JD M. I never cared for the old 2 cyls as they wore you down after long hours on the seat. Since then it has been a string of fords, farmalls, and AC's, and not untill this year another JD (4120). They have all had one thing in common (USA). To me, the new JD 4000-20 series stands out because they make the whole thing (eng. inluded) over here. As for the starting ability of the JD: This afternoon I started mine which was parked outside at about 5 deg F in a stiff wind (I'm way up by the Canadian border). Usually I use the block heater but this time I was in a hury to fetch a deer (4 legged kind) I shot on the back 40. It started on the first crank after holding the key in about 15 sec. Good luck with your shopping and either way, you cant go wrong with those two choices.
cowboydoc
Super Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2000
- Messages
- 6,725
- Tractor
- JD 8320 MFWD, JD 6415 MFWD, FEL, and cab, John Deere MFWD 4600, John Deere 4020, John Deere 4430, John Deere 455 mower, Deutz, and Gehl 4610 perkins skidsteer
Ok CT I'll say it again. I don't think there's any question that the 4720 is superior to the 5030. I'll take your $1000 bet on my 4600 with a 400 loader that I can lift just as much as your 5030 can. You are more than welcome to come over to my house anytime you wish to collect on the bet. I've got plenty of haybales, pallets, etc. to lift. I moved probably 2500 2000 lb. bales this last year, one on the loader and one on the 3 pt. hitch all summer with the 4600. We get feed 40 bags to the pallet that weigh 2000 pounds that I pick up off the truck when it makes it's delivery to our house and set them in the barn every two weeks.
As far as the hydro comment, since you only want to talk about black and white, what we see on this site and any other site is purely subjective information. I can point you to several posts regarding the failure of mfg. to come up with a standard form of measurement for loaders but you already said you have no interest there. You can't say that the deere hydro is more prone to failure without actual unbiased third party documentation. Anything other than that is purely guessing. Just because someone says it here, as you so "politely" say doesn't mean it's true. And as you have so eloquently reminded me I'm in violation for saying something I can't back up 100% then I suggest you remove your "questionable" statement here as violation as well.
Next let's go to your statements. Most everything you say regarding the 5030, except for the loader stats, are based purely on your opinion of the machine.
So let's just say for arguments sake that the 3pt. and loader lift 5-15% more than the deere. Ok that's 1 point for the 5030. From your own statements do you really need that extra? You sure seem to think those items are deal breakers but extra hp, extra hydraulics, load match, a climate controlled cab that will climate control 600 square feet, 15,000 btu heater, 3rd party documented 20% less noise cab, sealed and pressurized cab with air filtration system only seen on $100,000 plus tractors, air ride seat, dual brake peddles to turn in slick conditions and when working in the fields, electronic speed control, i-match system, more expensive direct injection and common rail system, 75 amp alternator, motion match, significantly increased dual hydraulic pumps with greater gpm flow, more standard lighting, auxillary coolers available, performance tracking system, turbocharged, just to name some of the features on the 4720 that the 5030 does not have. Oh and let's not forget the bigger fuel tank, but in your opinion that's only because it uses more fuel which is contrary to any published fuel consumption rates when comparing a turbo to a non-turboed engine. I guess that's probably a tie then in your opinion. To me it still adds up to a superior tractor. To you it doesn't. I don't think I've made excessive and/or mindless promotion of "your brand" statements. I state the 4720 is superior based on everything the tractor has and does not just picking and choosing which points are important and then the ones that my tractor doesn't win at saying they aren't important and a person doesn't need them.
As far as the hydro comment, since you only want to talk about black and white, what we see on this site and any other site is purely subjective information. I can point you to several posts regarding the failure of mfg. to come up with a standard form of measurement for loaders but you already said you have no interest there. You can't say that the deere hydro is more prone to failure without actual unbiased third party documentation. Anything other than that is purely guessing. Just because someone says it here, as you so "politely" say doesn't mean it's true. And as you have so eloquently reminded me I'm in violation for saying something I can't back up 100% then I suggest you remove your "questionable" statement here as violation as well.
Next let's go to your statements. Most everything you say regarding the 5030, except for the loader stats, are based purely on your opinion of the machine.
So let's just say for arguments sake that the 3pt. and loader lift 5-15% more than the deere. Ok that's 1 point for the 5030. From your own statements do you really need that extra? You sure seem to think those items are deal breakers but extra hp, extra hydraulics, load match, a climate controlled cab that will climate control 600 square feet, 15,000 btu heater, 3rd party documented 20% less noise cab, sealed and pressurized cab with air filtration system only seen on $100,000 plus tractors, air ride seat, dual brake peddles to turn in slick conditions and when working in the fields, electronic speed control, i-match system, more expensive direct injection and common rail system, 75 amp alternator, motion match, significantly increased dual hydraulic pumps with greater gpm flow, more standard lighting, auxillary coolers available, performance tracking system, turbocharged, just to name some of the features on the 4720 that the 5030 does not have. Oh and let's not forget the bigger fuel tank, but in your opinion that's only because it uses more fuel which is contrary to any published fuel consumption rates when comparing a turbo to a non-turboed engine. I guess that's probably a tie then in your opinion. To me it still adds up to a superior tractor. To you it doesn't. I don't think I've made excessive and/or mindless promotion of "your brand" statements. I state the 4720 is superior based on everything the tractor has and does not just picking and choosing which points are important and then the ones that my tractor doesn't win at saying they aren't important and a person doesn't need them.
Let the Big Dog eat, I couldn't believe the replies when I got home. I thought there may only be one. Does anyone know what foreplay with your women in Ky is, just tell your wife or girlfriend to get in the tractor, hope I didn't' violate any rules, I wouldn't want to be kicked off being such a new member. I spent 1 hour on the Kubota today testing and driving, then went to deere and spent 1 plus hours testing and used a creeper to get underneath. I love the Kubota and will say it is one awesome machine and had plans to get one until I saw mother deere and I feel in love. I always thought you were buying the name until now. The Deere, has more HP, more torque, more hydrolics, much better accessibilty for service. Better loader joystick location, better 4wd engagement location, air seat, brakes on opposite side that are useable and not in your way of the banana hydro peddles, your right heal stays on the floor, you can exit thru either side of the cab joystick is not in your way. Cab much quieter, the cab has a much better lining then the thin plastic on kubota, I took the filtration filter off the back of the cab, unbelieveable hepa standards with gasket, full visability on both doors, large drink holders, place for cell phone, You don't have to take off sides and front of the deere to get to battery and service, larger fuel tank and I like fill up locaton much better, don't take a chace spilling all over hood and engine, has split cast oil pan like Kubota. The new 4720 start much quicker, less engine rev and better then old ones, sloped hood and loader, the loader is easily taken off. You can get from factory for the deere hard lines and hook up for 3rd valve for root grapple on lever beside loader. I love the load match I have spoked with many guy that run different load match systems and they said after a while you would not want to ever have a tractor without it once you get use to it. The Kubota hydro seemed to have more whine, but that is probably the preasurized cab making the deere more quiet. I like the true skid steer quick attach on the loader to skid steer specs, it has the best levers and much easier to release handles are much thicker, wet multi clutch instead of single dry on Kubota self priming pump incase you run out of fuel on deere. I cannot believe all the homework, fit and finish on the deere. John Deere must understand that most of the tractors sold in the future will be CUT. I spoke with over 5 different mechanics and two rental places, one deere had 2900 hrs and they have seen no e-hydro issues since there early 4710's and have never seen a front axle issue. There is also part of me that wants to buy american if possible. As for the larger front axle on the kubota, the deere is smaller, but could be a stronger alloy, since they have never seen a failure in the commercial or rental fleets. I want be on my tractor but two hundred hours a year, maybe more now, its all the small things that matter. I look at this as a positive, because Kubota will have to step up to the plate quicker and up John deere or they will be loosing sales which will help all of us who like CUt TRACTORS, because competition is great and the consumers are the real winners When they come back and Kick John deere's butt , I will be buying a kubota. I appreciate meeting all my new friends and tarzan will you still help me with my root grapple and maybe we will have to hook them up draw bar to draw bar and let the bid dog eat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for all the new friendships. I hope to send pictures soon of the tractor soon with root grapple and other attachments /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
What the hay )*)*&(&())@&# am I doing, I didn't mean to post that freaking )*)(*)(& message without the spell check and gramamtical checks in place, I told you the three roughest years of my life, Tarzan, can you post a message after spell check or do you have to manually correct.
