Testing a Tiltmeter

[Rch]

Rick, sounds perfect ! I want to be a Beta tester. I forwarded my home URL.

RCH

 

[JerryG]

Rick,
Fantastic idea for the bucket level. I would like to see that thing. I put a lot of hours on my tractor and loader. They are used almost daily. The ground that I work on is not always level, so even the level gauge that came with the loader will not work. It does fine if the whole thing is on level ground, but my farm is not quite level. Will the laser work to where bucket is level no matter the altitude of the tractor?
By the way, I don't have any problem with the damping of tiltmeters.
JerryG

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Rick,

I think the pendulum-laser (with on-off switch to save battery power?, or would it use tractor-battery power?) is a neat idea.I'm picturing something tiny-but-bright., like some of the pistol-sight units.

This idea of "precision-leveling" brings up the question "How is it useful?".

I'd like to hear everybody's thoughts about how knowing the attitude of you bucket relative to true horizontal/vertical, instead of relative to the tractor, could be helpful, in whatever situations you can think of!?

Thanks,

/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Larry

 

[TWINKLE_TOES]

Rick,

Thanks for your kind acceptance of an opposing view. I have never been hard over on this issue and I enjoyed the opportunity to try out your meter. I'm been one of those guy's that's tried to join the 20th century and ran out of time.
I drive 3/4 ton 1966 Ford F250, a 1944 Farmall A, Don't know when my David Bradley was MFG, no Cell phone, no Scanner, no digital camera, antenna TV an no digital camera (did I mention I don't have digital camera). The newest thing I own is this weeks groceries and the B21.

Thanks again for the chance to check out your meter, I don't have any difficulty understanding the positive response your meter has received by the majority of this board. It's well designed and manufactured.

With respect to damping, other posts on the board indicate the B21 is a rough riding machine, and maybe not represenative of compact tractors in general.

 

[RBManufacturing]

Harv,
Will not know for sure about exact mounting, or location until
I travel around and look at different buckets, etc. First
theory is mount laser on arm of bucket, on pendulum. Marks
could then be put on bucket to show level, 5 degrees up, five
degrees down, etc. This could be done with a decal.

Rch. Soon, I will have something to send you to view. Keep
in mind, it will probably have to be put on with tape, or
some sort of quick mount. Final product will have hard mount.
Yours will be proto type.

Jerry, Yes pendulum type of mount. 12v.d.c.

LHSmith,
The beam has an adjustable lens. It can be very tiny(1/8 in.)
or up to 1/2 in.

Twinkletoes.
Best truck I ever had was a 65 Ford 1/2 ton. Wish I had kept
it.

Quote from a good friend, A marketing whiz for a major auto
manufacturer. "The best design engineer is the customer."
And the public opinion poll was born. Get th idea guys?
When I started designing my meters, I looked at ALL the
competitors models. I used ideas from some, and made
improvements on every level. I then spent months, and a
fortune in phone calls, and travel to talk with possible
customers. Much of their input went into design also.
Black body to resist glare in bright sun came from my own
experience. Extreme temp. range fluid came from possible
customer in Antartica. Custom paint of numbers came from
Highway dept. Tape mount and bracket option came from
many. Etc. Who better to suggest product improvements
than the users????? I thank everyone for your comments.
You can all ask your bosses for a raise. Tell them I said it
was o.k. Rick? Rick Who? Who the hell is Rick? Get back to
work. Rick


Rick Hedgecock
R&B Manufacturing
http://www.tiltmeter.com
(816)587-9814

 

[Harv]

Larry has zeroed in on a question I was leading up to:

<font color=blue>bucket relative to true horizontal/vertical, instead of relative to the tractor</font color=blue>

In my vast (32 hours) experience, I find that I need both, depending on what I'm trying to do. For the most part I want the bucket to be aligned with the grade the tractor is on. I'm seldom on perfectly level ground, so I want the bucket to match whatever slope I'm on.

When I'm using my bucket forks, however, I want to know exactly where level is. I also imagine that if I were trying to truly level a piece of ground, a level bucket indicator would be useful.

More important input will probably come from the veteran tractor owners out there.

 

[Rch]

Harv, I suspect a true level gauge for a FEL would greatly shorten the learning curve for using a FEL effeciently by supplying the necessary feedback. After abit other cues, unique to your machine, would come in to play. Picking up gravil or manure from a pile is pretty easy; trying to skim off something level is trickier. Leveling/grading or compacting,either by pushing the bucket forward or pulling it backward, is often dependent on the bucket being just off level a few degrees. Working on hillsides with the elevation of the bucket raised, as you noted, is trickiest. I realize I'm preaching to the choir, but a bucket level device, I think,would make a pro out of you fast. Combined with a 4 in 1 bucket ( which I don't have) I think such a device would shine. Rick, that brings Mark Chalkley to mind as another Beta tester.

RCH

 

[RBManufacturing]

Harv,
I am thinking about a pendulum mount bracket that
attaches to the pivot pin on back of bucket. This would
allow a permanent point of reference for the laser. I believe
this point would always be the same regardless of angle
of bucket. Whether bucket is raised, or lowered. This is an
early stage of thought. Will take a little more time, and
trial and error to prove. I made the laser for a different
reason. However, I thought I might adapt it for the bucket
level also. I originally made it to send a beam from tractor to
rear mount, pto run implement. If beam is broken by operator,
it would stop pto. Second most injurious accident on a farm
is getting caught in pto. Weeds, debris, etc. broke beam
too often to be feasible. Still playing with the idea. Do you
see anything obvious I'm missing here? As a bucket level I
mean. I'll keep you informed as I progress. Rick

Rick Hedgecock
R&B Manufacturing
http://www.tiltmeter.com
(816)587-9814

 

[dmccarty]

RB,

At first the idea of a level for the FEL did not seem very important to me. I've think I have figured out what how I need to place the FEL depending on use.

But then this weekend.....

I have a tiltmeter and a slope meter but I have only mounted the former since it was needed most. This weekend I needed the slope meter. Which after rereadin this thread got me to thinking about a level indicator on the bucket.

If the indicatior would show the bucket level referenced against the ground and not the tractor that would be usefull. But I could see a use if the device would also show different angles up and down. I think this is what you were saying in your post regarding to 5 degrees up/down. I was digging out a ramp this weekend and knowing the angle of the ramp would have been interesting.

As I write this I could also see a use for such a device on a boxblade/back blade.

I few months ago I was looking into laser levels/tools and noticed they had such devices for using on tractors/heavy equipment. But the price was real heavy! It sounds like you might be able to create a poor mans version...

Hope this rambling helps.....
Dan McCarty

 

[RBManufacturing]

Re: Bucket laser level

dmccarty,
I made a little more progress today on the bucket level laser.
My initial math says I should be able to keep price between
$99.00 to $135.00. Maybe less. I have an electronic model
now that has a remote sensor that reads from 0 to 90
degrees, in tents of degrees. However, it is extremely
sensitive. It has an lcd readout that mounts on dash.
It is for oil well drilling, and used to line the drill up before
starting it. The laser model will work much better, and be
cheaper. All the initial input you guys give now can only
help in developement stages. I might even give a
"I helped develope that thing" discount. Rick

Rick Hedgecock
R&B Manufacturing
http://www.tiltmeter.com
(816)587-9814

 

[RobertN]

Re: Bucket laser level

Rick,
How about a laser cutter? Seriously! With a focused contained length beam, you could replace a rotary mower for moist grass or brush. The technology exists Of course, the price is probably way too much $$$. I could see a $250k laser on a $15k tractor...

RobertN in Shingle Springs Calif

 

[Harv]

Re: Bucket laser level

Rick -

Just curious -- how do you suppose this, or any optical system, will fare in a hostile environment full of dirt, dust, mud, snow, pressure-washers and spilled coffee? /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

 

[RBManufacturing]

Re: Bucket laser level

Harv,
I have already spoken to a glass company that says they can
make a small scratch resistant glass lens to cover hole in
box that laser is mounted in. Should wipe clean easily.
Should not build up too fast, but if it does, it will wipe clean,
without damage. Initial tests show it will shoot through fair
amount of dust, and still be a good viewable beam. You are
on the ball. I thought of same thing yesterday. Thats why I
called glass co. today. Rick

Rick Hedgecock
R&B Manufacturing
http://www.tiltmeter.com
(816)587-9814

 

[TWINKLE_TOES]

Re: Bucket laser level

Rick,

This sounds like a fun topic. How about this and keeping it simple.

Use a potentimeter with a lead weight hanging from the shaft. Pot shaft is horizontal, weight hangs normal to the shaft, shaft is parallel to the plane of rotation. Use a digital panel meter, calibrated in degrees. Configure it electrically in a bridge configuration with a zero balance adjustment (assembly need not be mounted on a zero degree surface). Power it from the tractor battery (draws a few milliamps). Add a voltage regulator for bridge excitation. Polyfilm pots which are good for a million cycles are cheap as are digital panel meters.
Price of the electrical parts less than $20. General rule for marketing, 3 times the price of the parts, $60 total. OEM quantities will drop these prices a lot.

 

[Harv]

Re: Bucket laser level

<font color=blue>it will wipe clean</font color=blue>

Now all you need is a Windex sprayer that hooks up to the loader's hydraulic system and you're all set. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[Harv]

Re: Bucket laser level

The Pot and the Pendulum

That's another great idea! I'm a big believer in "elegance through simplicity", and you've nailed it. Rick might just come back and explain why it won't work, but offhand I'd say you're onto something.

I'm a little rusty on my electronics, but I think it would also be possible (and inexpensive) to build in some electronic dampening to smooth out the readings.

I'm loving this board for its range of talent and creativity. What a gold mine! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[LarryT]

Re: Bucket laser level

Twinkle_Toes, Even tough I'm in the electronics manufacturing business, I'd pay $60 for such a device in a heartbeat. Once the engineering work is done, I hate the packaging, mounting, etc. We use electronic inclinonometers for our satellite systems but they are far more sophisiticated than necessary for this application (and expensive). Come to think of it, my electronic level is the same thing, but still more than $60. I like your KISS level indicator. All we care about is level and relative indications approaching level, not degrees or percentages.

On the other hand, I'm trying to convince myself that with enough practice I won't need these helper tools. It's just that I probably only have another 40 or so years to practice and that may not be enough!

Larry...

 

[RBManufacturing]

Re: Bucket laser level

Hi Twinkletoes,
I'm impressed!!!!! The only experience I have with such a
potentiometer was 2 yrs. ago for a similar project. The only
problem I had was finding one with light enough friction on
shaft to make it work right. All the ones I tried needed such
a large weight that is was not feasible. With such a large
weight, the shaft bearing, or bushings would not handle the
weight without considerable wear. I by no means did not try
all that might be available. Other projects came up that were
more pressing at the time. I would truly appreciate any help
you might , or anyone might offer. Actually, I like your idea of
the system better than mine. So, when are we going to
start on this ????? If and when a finished model is available,
we can split the profits. However I get first dibs on a trip to
the Bahamas. Seriously guys, any input is welcome.
Twinkletoes, please e-mail if you would like to assist. I am by
no means an expert on electronics. Rick

Rick Hedgecock
R&B Manufacturing
http://www.tiltmeter.com
(816)587-9814

 

[Bill_in_MI]

Re: Bucket laser level

I like the way you guys are thinking. Glad I tuned in to this thread (after it was renamed) cause I have been trying to dream up ideas on my own. None as good as what's here. My old B7100 FEL has a mechanical indicator. I guess I didn't realize how much I relied on it 'till it was gone. This was a sliding rod in a tube that mounted between one of the bucket brackets and an arm on the lift frame. When the rod was flush with the top of the tube, the bucket was in a level (relative to tractor) position.
Both parts had to be mounted to pivot slightly because of a little vertical plane motion that occurrs during bucket movement. Don't know why this was abandoned...I didn't have any problems with it and it must have cost all of $10 to make.
I was thinking about fabricating one for my new rig. But with my leaning toward the "techie" side of things, this may be just two darned simple.

 

[caddison]

Re: Bucket laser level

Rick,

Was reading about the laser level and came up with an idea. Instead of a constant beam monitoring an indicator on the bucket, why not a reflective sensor that is positioned in a fashion that when the bucket is level the beam would bounce back, thus activating a light on the dash panel. Not sure if it would work but it sounds good in theory! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif