Thanks to George...

[skent]

I also have many many "Radio Craft" magizines from the 30's and 40's. It's amazing the distance we have covered in all these years, but as I have said before, as we make the computers and machines smarter, faster and more efficient, we are ending up making our human race less smart, slower and less efficient. We are allowing the machines to "pick-up" the slack and allowing ourselves to coast.


Steve

 

[tanuke01]

I don't know where you get your information, But japanese school are very high stress(pressure) Kids are tested and the ones with high scores go to the best school. This starts in grade one and continues to grade 16. It is common for grade school kids to kill themselves for failing to get into the right school. I lived in Japan for 6 years. The lower grades are the worst.

 

[tanuke01]

Most of the students that come to the US for College are the one that can not get into the good schools in Japan. They are very thankful to be able to attend.

 

[cowboydoc]

I can tell you exactly where I get my facts from. That is Dr. Laure E. Berk's textbook "Development Through the Lifespan" Chapter 9 Education in Japan, Taiwan, and the United States from Illinois State University. The class I took was Multicultural Education from the University of Iowa. I have also talked to numerous Japanese students and have been told exactly the opposite. It is the gifted and the well to do that are sent over here to go to school because the Universities are better. From what I've been told there is nothing to compare to Ivy League schools there as well as Big 10 schools.

 

[JOR_EL]

Tanuke01,

Welcome to TBN /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif,

Could you tell us what the average Japanese citizen thinks of that kind of pressure on the schoolkids?

Are there any dissenters, or would that be too "politically incorrect" in Japanese culture?

I also wonder what the Japanese students who DO come to the US for school think of the system/culture here?

Thanks for your comments! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Larry

 

[hess]

skent,

It's funny how times have changed with regards to our objectives (learning goals) in the classroom.

When I first started my student teaching assignment eight years ago (3 months in a Philadelphia middle school), I was initially surprised by my co-op's unwillingness to focus on grammatical and spelling errors. Granted, this was an 8th grade science course, but I expected her to be a little tougher when it came to these "basics."

Without going into the specifics, this school was a "magnet school," and there was a waiting list to get in (many inner city kids came into the school at a remedial level and left at an advanced or gifted one) - and the mission statement revolved around developing ideas, and stimulating the mind to think on its own; so that learning becomes a lifelong endeavor.

By focusing too much on details (dates, names, phrases, etc.) we discourage some of the higher level thinking that we all want our children to develop. I gradually bought into this way of thinking, although it still bothers me to see some of the mistakes that my 10th - 12th graders make.

Now, is this an approach that everyone will agree with? Probably not. Does it encourage mediocrity with regards to fundamentals? Maybe. Can students learn the basics and develop their mind at the same time? Of course. But, I was persuaded by the fact that many of the students coming into this school were borderline illiterate - but they were bright kids, anxious to learn. It is my opinion, and the opinion of a great deal of people, that ideas and concepts are more important than the rote memorization of rules and facts.

When people criticize the paths that some of their schools have taken - I encourage them to become an active participant in their childs education. Talk with the teachers and listen to their rationale for whatever it is they may be doing.

Some new teachers will try to re-invent the wheel - sometimes they have a good reason for it.

hess

But, as we have seen over the past century, times change. As do our objectives in the classroom.

 

[JOR_EL]

Hess,

[[[By focusing too much on details (dates, names, phrases, etc.) we discourage some of the higher level thinking that we all want our children to develop. ]]]

Acknowledging that 'too much" of ANYTHING is too-much (duh!) let's remove those two words from the above quote.

Now we have; (A)"By focusing on details (dates, names, phrases, etc.) we discourage some of the higher level thinking that we all want our children to develop."

Let's compare that with; (B)[[[ Can students learn the basics and develop their mind at the same time? Of course.]]]

Do you not see a contradiction between these two statements?

Now lets add ; (C)[[[ Does it encourage mediocrity with regards to fundamentals? Maybe.]]]

So: If (A) contradicts (B), and (B) is an "Of course"., then lets just disregard the "disproven" (A).

Leaving a "new" system that "stimulates thinking" but "maybe" "encourage mediocrity with regards to fundamentals? ", ...vs an "old" system that has "students learn the basics and develop their mind at the same time".

This scenario offers(paraphrased) "thinking" expressed-with, or using-as-tools, "perhaps-mediocre" fundamentals.

In the past "thinking" was highly valued AND the base upon which to best-do this "thinking" was highly valued as well!

Having conceded that both can be accomplished ("of course"), ...why (for all of our sakes!) not DO IT?

[[[It is my opinion, and the opinion of a great deal(sic) of people, that ideas and concepts are more important than the rote memorization of rules and facts.]]]

That, to me, is like saying that food is more important than water.
Living without either one would be quite a trick. And having an "idea", ... visualizing a "concept" that you can only with-great difficulty research("readin'"),poorly-express("ritin'"), or faultily develop("rithmatic"), is not what it means to be educated.

It is to have a "partial", or INCOMPLETE "education"(so-called).

I am constantly amazed by those who would "serve" our children (and society) by LOWERING STANDARDS(!) ...and without fail, asking for more money to do it with.

[[[It's funny how times have changed with regards to our objectives (learning goals) in the classroom.]]]

Nothing "funny" about it, in my opinion!

PS: The "duh!" was intended to be "generic", ...not directed at you personally, Hess.

Larry

 

[GrantMO]

Richard, Tanuke,

I've often heard that the suicide rate among Japanese school children is higher than ours. Not sure if that's true but if it is that would make it incredibly high as ours is through the roof, especally for adolescent boys.

Comparisons between the schools of Japan and the U.S. are interesting but I believe the success of the Japanese methods also comes from other factors such as homogeneity of their society, respect for family and elders, and tendency toward collectivism rather than individualism. Of course these are my opinions not based on fact but supposition.

The foreign students I have seen in this country in professional schools have either been intelligent, wealthy, connected(politically or royally) or a combination of the three. I don't know any Japanese professionals but have met alot of Chinese, Indian, Russian and various people from Africa engineers and doctors and they all fit one or more of the 3 types above

.

 

[tanuke01]

I have never heard of an elimentery student killing themselves from stress in the US. They kill others. I agree with your thoughts.

 

[tanuke01]

I agree with the part of the well-to-do coming here. The gifted no. Most Japanese Corporations do not hire the people that were educated in the USA. (Unless Dad owns the Co) except in lower postions. Try to find a CEO that was educated in the USA.
As to what the students tell you" Would you tell anyone that you could not make it in Japan and came to the US to get your degree. I think Not.
In this country, status (Ivy League) and sports (big 10) are for the rich and powerful. Japan has their status universities. A degree from the University of Tokyo assures a student of a good life as long as he follows the rules. Japanese are very closed mouth when talking to non-Japanese on matter of pride and Japanese honor. They tell outsiders what they expect to hear as long as Japan looks good.