Tires The last word on flipping tires.

[Reg]

I have been searching the forums for a definitive answer on flipping the front tires on my L4400, to increase the width. It is almost 50-50 as far as opinions go. I just had my new tires foam filled. Since I had them off, an since they now weigh 200 pounds each, was going to flip them, so the dish is to the out side, giving me about a 2 inch increase in width on the front. Some posts say it will stress the wheel bearings, others say no, some say the front axle pivots, and that cancels out any benefit you might get (I can't see how.) In any case, I am going with whatever consensus I get from the replies on this thread. I thank you in advance for your opinions.

Yes, a lot of folk do it.
Yes, some manufacturers advise against it in the owners' manuals.
I would check the owners' manual, if it doesn't say don't - that may only mean that they don't want to admit to having put weak hubs on (-:
or it could mean that it is OK to do.

SOME have different recommendations for Ag, R4s, Turfs - so tire type MIGHT matter.

 

[tessiers]

I'd set the tires to fit the rows of corn, don't see any other way of doing it.

 

[slowzuki]

On my Kubota, you are asked not to flip or widen the front tires. If I didn't use the loader all the time I'd probably ignore that, but since I've had to do front end bearing work even where they are now, I wouldn't risk it with a loader.

I have my rears out as wide as possible already. I work on pretty steep stuff, never been a problem.

 

[Gary Fowler]

OK, I am going to toss out a speculative theory that by flipping the tire on a dished rim that you dont put any extra stress on the axle. You simple transfer the stress in opposite directions. The rim centerline location is still bolted at the same spot. So when the dish is set to inside direction (narrowest)the stress on the axle is wanting to push the axle end down whereas when dished to the outside (widest) the stress would want to push the axle tip up. The same amount of force is on the axle and bearings, just pushing it in the opposite direction. The amount of steering load increases due to the longer leverage distance between the tires so you would get harder steering and likely a bit more wear on the steering knuckles. As for not worth it on the front due to pivot, folks claiming that have likely not noticed that the axle hits the frame way before the tractor would reach a roll over point, so widening the front stance helps to prevent tip over just as much as widening the back.
Please one of you engineering folks prove me wrong with some actual computations or CAD model not opinions.

 

[davygp38]

Thanks for all the feedback. In the owners manual, under four wheel drive models, It clearly says in two places " front tread can not be adjusted." It also says " Important, do not turn front disc's to obtain wider tread." As far as the rears go, there are specific mounting instructions for getting the widest tread, based on the tires you use, and whether you have a back hoe or not ( I do.) The manual also says " dual tires are not approved." I guess the front bevel gear in the wheel hub will be damaged somehow, by the additional stress. I am going to call the dealer tomorrow, to find out what the service manager says. It seems funny to me, that you can't adjust front tire width to accommodate your rows. My old A/C D17 (2wd) was infinitely adjustable. In the case of the L4400, I was not planing on using it to do a lot of planting, but I was thinking of doing some food plots.

 

[Gary Fowler]

As some one pointed out, you need to adjust your wheels to fit the rows so the fronts match the back. If they dont allow you to move the fronts, then I guess the tractor was only meant for FEL work or mowing and you need another tractor for gardening. Better hang on to the old D17 or 8N. I have been running my Yanmar 4220D with the wheels turned out for nearly 3 years and no problems. It does steer differently with them turned out, but I challenge anyone including manufacturer to prove that it causes more stress on the axle. The force on the axle acts like a simple lever, pushing one way and pulling the other. It cant put any more force on the axle than the amount of dish in the rim. If you added spacers to the axles like some folks have to do with the SCUTs for chain clearance etc. then you would put more stresses on the axle. A tractor with no adjustment to wheel base has very limited uses as a tractor. Just my H.O.

 

[art]

Please explain your thinking here.

What part, would you like to know more about? It's not thinking, it's whats learned!

 

[dcyrilc]

What part, would you like to know more about? It's not thinking, it's whats learned!

The part of stress, while yes you have added that to the front axle bearings, housings and axles in a huge way by the foam filled fronts.

The wording here isn't making sense to me. I'm just asking if you can maybe reword it so I understand your point.

Foam filled tires are neutral in regards to stress on front axle bearings, housings, and axles. The only time they would place additional stress on the front axle bearings is if the wheels are in the air and this is still much less than a full loader bucket puts on them.

TIA for any clairifiation.

 

[davygp38]

The wording here isn't making sense to me. I'm just asking if you can maybe reword it so I understand your point.

Foam filled tires are neutral in regards to stress on front axle bearings, housings, and axles. The only time they would place additional stress on the front axle bearings is if the wheels are in the air and this is still much less than a full loader bucket puts on them.

TIA for any clairifiation.

I have to agree with you on the Foam filled tires. The ground is supporting the tires, the weight of the tires is a non issue. The only concern I have heard was that the tires have a lot less give in them, so you get a rougher ride. I am willing to risk it.

 

[davygp38]

As some one pointed out, you need to adjust your wheels to fit the rows so the fronts match the back. If they dont allow you to move the fronts, then I guess the tractor was only meant for FEL work or mowing and you need another tractor for gardening. Better hang on to the old D17 or 8N. I have been running my Yanmar 4220D with the wheels turned out for nearly 3 years and no problems. It does steer differently with them turned out, but I challenge anyone including manufacturer to prove that it causes more stress on the axle. The force on the axle acts like a simple lever, pushing one way and pulling the other. It cant put any more force on the axle than the amount of dish in the rim. If you added spacers to the axles like some folks have to do with the SCUTs for chain clearance etc. then you would put more stresses on the axle. A tractor with no adjustment to wheel base has very limited uses as a tractor. Just my H.O.

Got rid of the D17 two years ago. I was always working on it. The power steering was starting to go, and that was a job for superman, not me.