The more I think it over the bigger it gets...

[Matt in Virginia]

Gentlemen,
I would like to begin by thanking everyone for your input on my John Deere versus Kubota question(s).

I was set to buy the JD 4720 until I started looking at the weight, or rather lack there of, and the ALUMINUM rear housings. I'm not casting aspersions to anyone with one of the tractors, however, I'll just say it was a shock to me. It has largely lead me to look back and the Kubotas, albeit larger models, and at heavier Deeres.

I realize we live in a global economy, for better or worse, and my simplistic remembrances of life behind the wheel of "true" John Deere farm tractors as a child(1982 4840) are not necessarily indicative of todays realities...

I've come to realize the following from MY perspective...

1. I prefer Green, however, I'm not going broke to get there.
2. I'm looking for a tractor with a bit more weight than either the JD 4720 or the Kubota 5740.
3. I think I need the cab due to allergies, however, Zyrtec goes along way for $10K...

4. I have discs, bedders, etc. that we still have on the farm from the 4 row era of farm equipment that does not leave me having to buy everything again if I start with a big enough machine. I even have an ultra heavy Bush Hog, sized for the 92 HP 4020, that is ready to roll.

5. I did not the like hydro transmissions in either machine(JD OR Kubota). I grew up with JD Synchro-Shifts, Quad Range, and Power Shifts. I prefer the first but can live with the latter two working in the field. I short I like a geared transmission...

I am coming down the same asinine choice that I made when I had to buy a new truck in 05'.... The ONLY two final choices were:

Toyota Tacoma Crew Cab 4x4, white, with Short Bed & V6 OR
Ford F-350 Super Duty Crew Cab Lariat 4x4, white, with Short Bed & Diesel Powerstroke.

In the end I choose the F-350 and I have never looked back. My world has changed tremendously over the last 5 years and the ability to hook my F350 on to my 3 axle equipment trailer with 24,000 pounds(pipe weight not trailer/truck weight) of 33" Ditch Pipe or a 26,000 pound unit of salt treated 8'x8'x20's banded together, and intended for semi movement, has been priceless. I know I was grossly over loaded, however, with a proper trailer and proper loading over the trailer axles it pulled perfectly. The rear end did not even squat. It actually looked just about perfect for the first time...

Moral of this seemingly unrelated story is that I am again looking at a Japanese Light Weight versus an American(German) Middle Weight. I've narrowed my choices down to a Kubota M6040 or M7040 Shuttle Shift OR a John Deere 6330 Premium with 673 Loader that has around 225 hours on it... Does this make me bipolar?... In all seriousness I know it is apples and oranges, however, I keep coming back to these two choices.

Here is the 6330 Premium...

In short I am reminded that in 2005 I had access to 5 of my father's KW W900s/T2000s with 460HP Red Head Cummins OR 550 HP CATs. Not to mention his trailers, insurance, ICC authority, to say nothing of trailers. That was a new 52' Raven Aluminum Deck shown beside my truck. Fast forward 5 years and I have NO access to those trucks, trailers, and most importantly of all my father(may he rest in peace).

Hence I'm caught in the Super Duty versus Tacoma Question. If everything would not have gone to **** in a hand basket I would not have needed the F350. That said it did and I did... Had I gone the Tacoma route I would have had to kiss a relatives A** to even move my 3 axle equipment trailer much less haul a load. The Super Duty has paid for it's premium many, many times not to mention having a Cab that offers far more room for those VA to CO jaunts. In short I'm very happy not to have gone with what I "needed" at the time and bought what I wanted.

I wonder if the 6330 is similar or entirely different kettle of fish... Thoughts? I do apologize if this is off topic...

In short the 6330 makes me less dependent...

Regards, Matt Garrett
Chesapeake, Virginia
757-581-6270

Btw, the Kubota is about 40K with the Cab, FEL, etc... The Deere is about 62K, with Superior Cab, FEL, etc. It also weighs about 10,000 pounds which is more than twice what the Kubota/JD light tractors weigh. While it is far from the 18,000 pound machine the 4840 was, it is **** a lot more Iron for the money than either of the lighter machines...

 

[tsteahr]

If you can manage to spend the extra money, you already know your answer. Make use of the lessons you learn in life. Nice post BTW.

 

[Matt in Virginia]

If you can manage to spend the extra money, you already know your answer. Make use of the lessons you learn in life. Nice post BTW.

tsheahr,
Thank you for the affirmation.

I was reading your equipment line and noticed your PTO generator. Granted I'm not wired up to make safe use of it, however, I have a nearly brand new 45KW PTO Generator that my father bought for the 4020. It does not take 85 PTO HP(6330), however, I dunno as the Kubota would be able to loaf under load like the bigger Deeres do with that unit...fwiw & Imho.

 

[om21braz]

If it is feasible, get what you want to start off with - it generally saves you money down the road (no second guessing) - BTW Nice JD & Ford!

 

[MarkV]

I'd have to know a bit more about your intended uses before offering a suggestion. That Deere sure is a beautiful tractor. It is also getting into a size range that is better for field work than general utility work around the homestead. To me it all has to do with what you plan to do with it.

MarkV

 

[TripleR]

I haven't gone back and reread the other post, but I kind of thought you were looking for a general utility tractor more than farm tractor. As mentioned, the job will dictate the size, but you know that with your back ground. All I can do is wish you luck as I know the feeling. The last two times I bought tractors, I came home with one smaller and one larger than I "wanted", but they were what I "needed".

 

[jenkinsph]

First, I think the aluminum housings you are referring to are on smaller tractors. The 4720 housings are cast iron, not aluminum. I agree these are light tractors. Prior to posting I checked with a magnet on my 4520.


To go from a compact to a 6330 indicates you are not sure what you want and that is okay too. I would try to figure this out and buy once though. I know I would like a better mower on the small end and a better large tractor for the ranch but I am concerned about the economy right now and will wait it out for now. The 6330 looks like a nice tractor to replace the OS4020 though.

 

[scoutcub]

Matt-

Interesting quandary you're in. Reading over your post a few times, as others have said, I think you've answered your own question. Assuming you have the land to work/need for HP as the older JD and existing implements would suggest, it's typically better to overpower vice underpower, as you also pointed out with the F350 scenario.
It's quite a bit of money for a tractor, but it's also quite a tractor(actually very nice!)....and you've only got pictures of 1 of the choices....
good luck!

 

[Matt in Virginia]

Gents,
As far as what I need or what I may need here is the situation...

I have two 20 acre plus properties that are not being rented out to a farmer. One is growing hay though the land is really not being taken care of... In short it is largely being allowed to lay out without suitable fertilizer, lime, etc.. In short the trace elements go down every year. The fellow who tends it has left the last two cuttings stand due reasons that he has not mentioned. In short he is in his Mid 60's and has made rumblings of letting his cows go. The reason he is, or more accurately was, round baling almost everything.

The second 20 acre property is about 6 miles down the road and recently came to me through an inheritance. It is the last part of a 120 acre farm that my father's father bought in 1945. The balance was given to his(grandfather) two other children who promptly sold it for about $600K. I had to laugh when it went back on the market, within a year, for $2.5 million. It is owned by a consortium of doctors who bought it with assorted pocket change found in the waiting room sofa...(grin)

In short my 20 acre parcel had a good deal of industrial castoffs thrown on the ground, at least on the front two acres, and it took me a few months with two Mexicans and a Hitachi 120-3 Excavator to clean it up. My father and I had very different ideas on being stewards of the land. The bad part is you never get everything up in a situation like that and most farmers don't want to put $200K worth of equipment on ground that may lead to a cut tire. At $2200 a piece the new radials are not cheap. Even an offer of free rent for two years has failed to draw any takers.

Not to mention I need to pay a business associate to do a bit of land leveling and ditching. To say this property has been VERY capital intensive, and still looks like crap, is an understatement.

Hence I have 20 acres that has not been tilled in three years and desperately needs attention. It has small trees growing up in what was previously field. If it does not get attention soon then we are back to a JD New Ground Disc. My uncle has one that my grandfather bought for the 4840. It is smaller than a 4 row disc, however, it would bring that 180 horse 4840 to stall if dropped in the ground fully. That said it cuts small trees cleanly into pieces. That said I don't have access to a 200HP tractor and hope not to need one...

I have another 50 acre tract that is currently being farmed by a good man and a good farmer, however, he is ill and I don't know how much longer he will be able/willing to brave the traffic in order to farm a rather small piece of land...

Hence I have 90 acres that stay on my mind as a potential problem. The 50 acre unit is the lesser of my worries, the hay farm comes second, and the God forsaken 20 I was cursed with/given takes up the majority of my worry time. Not to mention mowing around the barn which is almost a non issue...

I've thought of discing the 20 acre problem farm to powder, again must have enough tractor to pull a 4 row disc and cultipacker, and plant Black Walnut Trees. It would make a nice windfall for my children or grandchildren. Not to mention requiring the least annual heavy tillage. I would suspect I that after the planting I could get by with monthly mowing. This would greatly reduce my need for the Deere.

My other thought was about going to Hay would require the extra HP, a round baler, and a disc mower. Add a tedder and rake and the green required to put in good hay and maintain it. Round bales only as NO ONE around here wants to work anymore. That said that is a very expensive path when starting from scratch.

I should now preface this by saying, like Steve, that I am very weary of this economy and I don't want to put anymore money out than is necessary. 70 acres of the "problem" land is within spitting distance of high end retail and $1-3 million dollar homes. Pay no attention to the foreclosure signs amongst a few of these houses. That said it may not take THAT LONG to hold on to this property before development moves the quarter mile to my location. We've had offers in years past...

Again like Steve I am weary of both this economy AND I am reminded of how so many farmers went broke in the late seventies and early eighties. They signed on the dotted line with Deere, IH, etc and when the bottom fell out they had no way to pay the debt.

In all truth I know that I am not comfortable with $62-65K Utility Tractor purchase. I am not even happy about having to make a purchase at all. I have been painted into a corner and SOMETHING has to break. I just don't want it to be my piggy bank..

Out of all the tractors I have seen, minus the cab, the Kubota M6040 is the most comfortable and comes the closest to being doable without too much pain. I've spent time with a JD 6400, a few evolutions back, and was fairly impressed with the tractor.

The 6330 Premium with 673 loader is my first choice, however, I am beginning to wonder if I am not making a mountain out of a mole hill... In short I truly dunno...

Pros and Cons:

JD 6330

Cons
1. Purchase price is anything but comfortable right now. Painful may be more accurate. I have more irons in the fire than I can shake a stick at at the moment. 6 months ago it would have been no problem, however, the cursed ground required about $55K to satisfy a mortgage I was unaware of. It was not actually on the farm land but rather on the house at the front of the property. That said the house was valued at slightly less than 6 times that number and I could not allow it to go...

2. Some of the equipment for the 4020 is just completely worn out. It was used to tend 2,500 acres when my Maternal Grandfather was at his height and likely needs to go to the scrap yard.


Pros
1. I can use some remaining 4 row farm equipment again without have to depend on anyone. The bad part is most of the equipment is 40 years old and in need of a rebuild. Most importantly the HD JD Disc comes to mind. It needs bearing, and to be completely honest, blades. That said it is a HD Disc that was built for 6 row operation but never had the wings put on. This disc dates to the mid 60s. It also needs sand blasting and painting and likely a hydraulic line or two.

The cultipacker(sp?) is largely idiot proof and a shot of grease keeps it ready to go.

Caveat: This could be the opportunity to shuck a good deal of 40 year old equipment, clean up my new barn yard, and buy the few items the Kubota would actually need.

2. Tractor will pull the load of the as new 45KW PTO Generator in case of hurricane and/or power loss. Granted I am not setup for hookup to our current house so this may be a moot point.

Kubota M6040

Pros

1. The ROPS model is very, very doable. The price is comfortable and I actually like the layout of the tractor. Far more than I liked the Grands.

2. Will do a goodly majority of what I need done until we get around to serious work.

Cons

1. Will not pull the disc or my disk bedders for garden preperation. I could cut the bedders down to a doable size, however, the disk is largely a loss.

2. From experience with farm implements, and I'm thinking disc and cultipacker here, they work better the larger they are... The 4 row stuff works alright, however, the 30 foot JD off set discs leave the ground level enough to shoot marbles across. I am not excited with the prospect of going smaller. That said I may be ahead of the game to hire the work out to begin with...

3. I have to get used to that orange crush color...

4. The biggest issue I have is that I can't see putting 40K in M6040 with a Cab and FEL. This puts me 22-24K away from the Deere 6330. Granted I really need, unfortunately, the cab due to allergies and sinus trouble.

In short I am very much open and appreciative of your input. I have no one to talk this out with, that is not HEAVILY biased, and this forum has provided a good deal to think about.

I have a tendency to overbuy for the job. The F-350 saved my bacon, however, I've got a good deal of over large professional gear that sees very moderate use... That said it NEVER disappoints when the light duty gear fails. Which is nice...

Thoughts and observations appreciated...

Steve,
Sorry for the bum information on the aluminum castings, I read it on here somewhere and took it as fact. The fellow even mentioned buying a JD retrofit iron casting that strengthened the rear end...

Regards, Matt Garrett
757-581-6270

Btw, Feel free to give me a call if you would prefer to yack...

 

[TripleR]

Matt,

Just a few thoughts/observations. I found it next to impossible to make a decent profit running four row equipment on small acreage. The last person that I know who was farming this way quit about ten years ago. Of course he had to have a full time job off the farm too.

I am a firm believer in hiring work done or renting/bartering as opposed to buying whenever feasible rather than winding up with no longer needed equipment. We do this on back hoes, excavators and Skid Loaders. I won't buy a big truck and trailer to transport as I can hire it done a lot cheaper. I own a Toyota Tundra and my brother has a GMC dually, you can guess which one spends most of its life in the garage. Not knocking big trucks as some need them and I would "like" to have one but $$$$$$$$$$

I will be the first to admit that I don't always do this as I am retired and prefer to spend time on a tractor bush hogging, moving material and road maintenance rather than sitting on the porch or recliner. There is a point beyond which I won't go and that is largely regulated by cost.

I am sure this hasn't helped as you do have a pretty complex situation and you seem like the kind of guy who likes to do your own work.

 

[jenkinsph]

Having reread everything it appears you have about 90 acres to maintain in one way or the other. I maintain more than this on a yearly basis, some of which I own and some by others. I think you will be better served to have both a smaller and a larger tractor. I have use in an older Deere 3030LS which is close to the 4020 in size and have the 4520 2009 and the 110tlb 2005. I also have an older 820 canopy 3 cylinder which is in good shape but is only 35 hp. The 3030 is a crappy tractor first of all, I am used to well maintained equipment and this thing was wailed on IMO. That being the case I went ahead and bought a new tractor last year to handle 90% of the work that needs doing.

I think in some ways your mind is still in the "large farm mode". I have finally gotten out of this myself, so it is easy to recognize. Going back years ago my family needed multiple large tractors and equipment to keep up and compete, those days are over. There are no 175 hp tractors in my future now and I question the idea of 100 hp tractors, while I "want one" I could hire out this work.

With your 20-20-50 acre parcels split up I would suggest you reconsider my original suggestion to complete and use the 4020 OS when the weather permits and get something like the 4520 cab tractor to use for routine maintenance. Transporting the 4520 is easy for me as the F550 pulls well and the cost of the smaller implements and tools is much lower too. I would think the 4020 with good mechanicals should be an easy tractor to complete and is paid for, that said keep it to handle the larger jobs. If by some chance you farm professionally in the future you will need these two tractors and them some, I would cross that bridge when I came to it.

Hope this doesn't come across as "too overbearing".

 

[MarkV]

I don't know if it comes into play in your situation but I would be thinking about transport also. You seem to have the proper hauling gear so I guess you already have a CDL license or it is not required in your state for farm use. Me I have no interest in jumping up to something that would require me to go through that and I have more than 200 acres to look after. It is mostly wooded so the maintenance isn't what you face though.

MarkV

 

[ChuckinNH]

Matt,

Just a few thoughts/observations. I found it next to impossible to make a decent profit running four row equipment on small acreage. The last person that I know who was farming this way quit about ten years ago. Of course he had to have a full time job off the farm too.

I am a firm believer in hiring work done or renting/bartering as opposed to buying whenever feasible rather than winding up with no longer needed equipment. We do this on back hoes, excavators and Skid Loaders. I won't buy a big truck and trailer to transport as I can hire it done a lot cheaper. I own a Toyota Tundra and my brother has a GMC dually, you can guess which one spends most of its life in the garage. Not knocking big trucks as some need them and I would "like" to have one but $$$$$$$$$$

I will be the first to admit that I don't always do this as I am retired and prefer to spend time on a tractor bush hogging, moving material and road maintenance rather than sitting on the porch or recliner. There is a point beyond which I won't go and that is largely regulated by cost.

I am sure this hasn't helped as you do have a pretty complex situation and you seem like the kind of guy who likes to do your own work.

Good post! Most thoughtful, and understanding. While I have no experience at all with tractors the size of the JD the OP is looking at, I do have experience maintaining 50-90 acres with much smaller tractors, and know it is possible. Round bales are less physical work, but do require larger equipment. My friend hays about 60 acres alone with a Kubota 95HP "M" series, and has been happy with that.
I guess my question is how much sense it makes to buy a large tractor to use available "farm" attachments VS perhaps using some of that money to equip a smaller, and yet comfortable tractor with the attachments needed? Are smaller attachments available at all to scrounge, or used?

 

[TripleR]

Good post! Most thoughtful, and understanding. While I have no experience at all with tractors the size of the JD the OP is looking at, I do have experience maintaining 50-90 acres with much smaller tractors, and know it is possible. Round bales are less physical work, but do require larger equipment. My friend hays about 60 acres alone with a Kubota 95HP "M" series, and has been happy with that.
I guess my question is how much sense it makes to buy a large tractor to use available "farm" attachments VS perhaps using some of that money to equip a smaller, and yet comfortable tractor with the attachments needed? Are smaller attachments available at all to scrounge, or used?

Chuck, no personal experience with any of the big stuff either as our biggest tractor is 80 HP. I don't know about other parts of the country, but I know around here when the cost of metal went up much of the smaller pieces of equipment went to the salvage yard including two of our planters. We have a real nice no till planter that is just too nice to scrap, but no one wants the smaller stuff. If a person could find some of the stuff still out there I bet the price would be right. Of course things may be entirely different in other locations.

 

[Matt in Virginia]

TripleR,
I appreciate and value your opinion. You put a lot of thought into what you have to say.

I am aware of rental bit as no one I know, even those who make a living with dozers and excavators, maintain trucks and lowboys. $200 is a deal...imho

I can't say I agree with you on the Tundra versus GMC Dually bit. I get 14-20 MPG depending if I am driving on the interstate of through town. I have actually needed the extra capability in the past and it has payed for itself. It is odd that I gave Toyota an equal shot on the last three vehicle purchases and then I went with Ford. This goes back to my first new truck in 94', 03', and finally 05'. I know what a ton truck can do with a proper trailer. Differing opinions and no more...

What I agree with you in spades on is the "Big Farm" Mentality that I still seem to drag around with me. Even though we have the total acreage to qualify for a moderate/big farm in this area I am not tending it. Thank God...

In all truth I need a 50-60 HP tractor, FEL, and maybe a cab. This is a doable deal. The rest was thinking out loud and became as obviously out of pro/con kilter on my side by the time I posted it. However, the strength of this forum, and you guys have not idea how much I appreciate your time and experience, is having someone go through it with a non ego invested perspective and comment.

We actually have more 6 row equipment than 4 row, however, the 6330 is not getting it done with 6 row bedders. Not to mention almost NO ONE plants on rowed up land anymore. No/minimum till has been the answer for years. With farm fuel at $2.50 a gallon you cannot afford that many passes over the land. Not to mention I have no interest in truly farming again. The Gentlemen that farms the vast bulk of the property already has 6-7 modern JD tractors from 180-300ish HP. He also has a 9760 JD Combine pushing a 40 foot grain head. Heck his JD Planter costs more than the 6330 Premium. This is HIS game and not mine. Thank you for the reminder...

In short I am going to deal with the problems as they arise as opposed to looking for problems to solve by throwing money at them prematurely...

With everyone's input I am about 95% sure I am going to buy a Kubota M6040. I like the transmission, shuttle shift, and general feel of the machine. Whether or not I'll spring for the cab is an open question. I had ruled Kubota out until I actually set under the ROPS/Sun Visor and paid close attention to the M6040 tractor. It is FAR more comfortable for me than the Grands. I'll probabely order one new from the factory as the model on the lot has a bit of rust here and there and don't like that on a new machine.

I also like the ability to add a loader after the fact without breaking the bank. The 6330 would have run 10K for the loader at $4500 plus for plumbing and the Joystick. The Kubota, while, completely different can have the loader added for about $5500. That said I'd like to do it from the beginning.

I've thought about the 4020 quite a bit and to be honest I am done with that machine. It has failed me at the worst possible times in the worst possible places. After awhile that begins to wear on your love for whatever piece of equipment. It will get an injection pump, transfer pump, and find a new home. I'll add what it brings to a couple pieces of equipment...

Best Regards, Matt Garrett
757-581-6270

 

[TripleR]

Matt,

"I can't say I agree with you on the Tundra versus GMC Dually bit. I get 14-20 MPG depending if I am driving on the interstate of through town. I have actually needed the extra capability in the past and it has payed for itself. It is odd that I gave Toyota an equal shot on the last three vehicle purchases and then I went with Ford. This goes back to my first new truck in 94', 03', and finally 05'. I know what a ton truck can do with a proper trailer. Differing opinions and no more..."

I didn't mean to get off into the weeds with this and never knock someone's choice of trucks. My brother has the 454 and gets about 6 mpg. He has to have it to pull his camper. I don't "need or want" a big truck as I wouldn't use it more than a couple of times a year and then I just pay someone to haul stuff as I hate borrowing even from relatives. I have the 7/8 size Tundra and like the smaller size as I can get into places on my hill farm I can't get near with a bigger truck; primarily drove the small pickups from 89 to 03. I had an F150 for several years during this time too and while I "liked" it, I just didn't "need" it.

Of course now that I am in my sixties, have my kids raised and am retired, I just may start to put more emphasis on "want" than "need", so any words of "wisdom" or advice may be in flux, so don't take anything I say too seriously.

 

[jenkinsph]

Matt,

Good luck with your choices, I think the M6040 specs appear to be good and it appears to have a longer wheelbase than the 4X20 Deeres'. These are all good tractor choices, you have to find the one that you like the best.

My comment about the "large farm mode" was because I sometimes catch myself wanting to relive the past. I look back to the times spent with my dad on the farm--those were good times. Realistically though I can reflect on those times from the seat of my small tractor just as easily now.

 

[Matt in Virginia]

Steve,
I apologize for not crediting you with the "big farm" comment. It just strikes me as way to true. In all truth when they give me an hour or so behind the wheel of the latest and greatest it only feeds the fire.. Know exactly where you are coming from on that...

TripleR,
No fair bringing out a 454 as representative of heavier trucks...;-) I actually wince when I see one or a V10 powered Excursion running around town. It it were not for diesels I'd likely drive a rice burner as well...(grin)

Regards, Matt.

 

[dcyrilc]

Matt,

I've just come across your thread, but was wondering if you've considered looking at decient older used tractors? I picked up a used JD-2240 last fall for a great price. Since I saved $40K over the cost of a new comparable tractor I can afford to put some work into the machine. Even if I were to go nuts and put the whole $40K I saved into the tractor, I think I would still have a better tractor than what I would have with a new one.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[jenkinsph]

Steve,
I apologize for not crediting you with the "big farm" comment. It just strikes me as way to true. In all truth when they give me an hour or so behind the wheel of the latest and greatest it only feeds the fire.. Know exactly where you are coming from on that...

TripleR,
No fair bringing out a 454 as representative of heavier trucks...;-) I actually wince when I see one or a V10 powered Excursion running around town. It it were not for diesels I'd likely drive a rice burner as well...(grin)

Regards, Matt.

Matt,
No apology needed, Thanks anyway.


About the trucks, I drove a new F450 chassis cab Friday with the new 7.4 very powerful truck. I need another F550 but this time I am going to wait and see how the new motor holds up. I was informed that with this new engine they no longer need to pull the cab for major work. We will see if the new engines are as efficient as claimed.