The Sorry State of Today's Journalism

[texasjohn]

John, I'm sorry, I missed your point??

So is the store owner justified to defend himself or not??

I've been to the Middle East. I totally understand their methods of defense. They cut off your hands or hang you from the nearest elevated structure that will hold your weight.

Just trying to figure out your point or stance. No flame intended.

Not trying to be obtuse...store owner IS entitled to defend himself...BUT...I saw nowhere that he was in danger...rather, he pursued the thief outside the store and shot one of the perps. If it was self defense, I missed what the threat was and how immediate it was. Seems it was vigilantism where he was the "judge, jury and executioner" and seeking to recover $1000 of merchandise.

My point is that there is no good answer. Societal breakdown is occurring in the middle east, in spite of the harsh/immediate punishments which you mention. And, in our USA situation, there seems to be no good answer, either. Our jails are filled with people, sentences are not standardized nor proportional to the crime, nor timely administered.

A further point is that I believe that anyone who has an "one sentence solution" to the problem is not thinking deeply about it.

Yes, stonypoint, it seems we will forever be ignorant of the make and model of chainsaw worthy of being locked up such that preplanned bolt cutters are necessary to "lift" it.

 

[PILOON]

Friend had a fire in his business establishment Xmas night at 3:am.
Building was deserted.
Press had wrong address, claimed a tenant barely escaped with his life.
Claimed suspicious fire and probably arson. Door was jimmeyed.
Then came quotes(?) from fire fighters that footprints led to the back door,
Then we hear that there is an arson investigation.

Facts are;
Closed for Xmas! Tenant was 200 miles away! footprints were in ice from recent ice storm!
Police have no report on file! Fire dept have signed off! Dogs came to sniff for accelerents and found nothing!
Wrong address was cited!

All this mis information is seriously hindering the insurance settlement and meanwhile my friend is operating from a trailer rental.
Fortunately the fire was quickly doused and essential records were saved.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

These men are thieves, they make a living stealing. They are stealing from small, family owned business's, that can't afford to lose a $500 or more chainsaw. These small business owners put their entire lives into making something that is theirs. They can lose their life's work and reward overnight. To see these worthless sob's so calmly steal what another has worked so hard for is disgusting. The only down side I see in this, is we get to pay for this criminals hospital bill. God bless the shooter. I think he will walk.

 

[Citydude]

As a business owner, I know without a doubt that I would "protect and defend" my rights to my life, property and my livelihood. These thieves are a wart on the *** of society. Enough is enough. Over and out.

 

[RandyT]

I don't know the laws in the state that this occurred. But IL law says you can make a citizens arrest for any crime in progress except a ordinance violation. Stealing a $1000 chainsaw is a class 3 felony. So he could claim he was attempting a citizens arrest, and the perp tried to run him over with the car, which is assault with a deadly weapon, and he feared for his life and fired in defense.

 

[newbury]

There is very little justification for shooting into a fleeing car. Perhaps he was trying to shoot the tire and missed.

Shooting the thief (or all three of them) in the store would have been better.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

Unfortunately for the store owner, this appears to be well outside prudent parameters for defensive use of a firearm.

My point exactly. Under common law, you could defend yourself with deadly force if you believed you were in danger of death or severe bodily injury. If you were at home at night, there was a presumption, under the law, that an intruder meant do do you bodily harm...the result was that you could use deadly force without knowing for sure what his intent was. Today's castle doctrine may vary all over the place depending on what jurisdiction you are in, but to kill an unarmed thief, running away with a chain saw in broad daylight, is probably not allowed anywhere...even a police officer would be in trouble.

You might get away with it if the guy was armed, and had just shot someone, but I think the store owner (or his son, whoever did the shooting) is probably in for a rough ride. There is a defense, in Texas, and I paraphrase, "The SOB needed killing", that might spark a "pardon by the jury", and as mentioned before, that might save his neck.

 

[ovrszd]

These men are thieves, they make a living stealing. They are stealing from small, family owned business's, that can't afford to lose a $500 or more chainsaw. These small business owners put their entire lives into making something that is theirs. They can lose their life's work and reward overnight. To see these worthless sob's so calmly steal what another has worked so hard for is disgusting. The only down side I see in this, is we get to pay for this criminals hospital bill. God bless the shooter. I think he will walk.

I totally agree. And to get on "point" with the thread title. The sorry state is that the news media actually played the thieves comments about how there shouldn't have been shots fired. No interview of the perts should have been aired.

I agree with an earlier poster that the shooter probably couldn't hit a head sized object with an artillery gun, let alone a pistol. He was shooting at the mass of the getaway car.

You can slice this any way you want. In the end, I believe an owner of property has the right to defend that property by whatever means ensures that protection.

 

[texasjohn]

You can slice this any way you want. In the end, I believe an owner of property has the right to defend that property by whatever means ensures that protection.

That may be your belief, but it is NOT supported by law in your state, Missouri! Self protection, yes, Property, NO!

Can you use deadly force to protect yourself? | Local - Home

Let's hope you never have to test your belief via the legal system.

 

[ovrszd]

John I'll take my chances with a jury of my peers.