The value of the space programs

[deereman64]

Thanks for pointing out the article. I hope you don稚 mind but I would like to make a couple of points.

He talks about space exploration in general terms and makes some specific points about the benefits. The US is a wealthy country and if it wants to spend its tax money in a certain way then that's´ its prerogative. But there is a question is the money being spent in the best way? Apart from one situation (which I will get too in a minute) there is no hurry in space exploration. We are not going to leave the planet anytime soon and equally I don't think we are going to meet any body. Therefore it doesn稚 really matter whether we find condition x on planet y tomorrow or in 500 hundred years time. To me then the question becomes are we spending the money in the most efficient way? The space station, for example, is an exercise in feel good international cooperation. I am sure we could get a much better return if we all worked together curing AIDS or Malaria. Manned exploration of Mars is another doubtful exercise. Getting man there and back involves immense resources and great risks. One disaster and all the political will would fly out the window. In contrast, the Març—´ Rovers have been beavering away happily for years, doing great work and I m sure given a couple of more generations of development they'll come across some fossil and we will be told by the politicians once they feel we can handle the truth. In some ways astronomy meets our needs for the wow factor. I'm sure every young man out there thought it was great that there is a galaxy blasting another one with the ultimate ray gun.
So what is the urgent need? There will be the occasion when an asteroid takes aim at planet earth. The dates are doubtful but I do think we should do the preparatory work in discovering how we could deflect one. There are plenty of comets out there to practice on. Money would be spent and success would be most reassuring.

 

[Tig]

I think the space program is very valuable. If more people would look at things in the context of our place in the universe we would have less problems on our planet.
Just my 2 cents....

 

[Tractors4u]

Maybe the govt. should use the same interior designers that the U.S. Navy uses. Ever walk around on a navy ship or sub?

When I left from my deployment to Iraq in July we were replaced with a Navy unit. Before we left they went to painting every hatch (Navy for door) gray. I kept hearing "haze gray and under way!"

 

[EddieWalker]

When I was an Embassy Marine with the State Department, we did the same thing at the end of the fiscal year. We'd save all year for 11 months, then buy two of everything possible on the 12th month to make sure the budget was down to zero. We had supplies, sports gear and just plain junk piled up in storage that was a challenge to figure out what to do with. It's not just NASA, the State Department is nothing but waste!!!

Since then, I've always thought that is anybody really wanted to stop the waste, all they have to do is offer half of what a person can save to them tax free. Save the governement $100,000 for the year, pocket $50,000. I bet that it won't take long to fix the problem this way. Everyone envolved knows of dozens of things that they can cash in on.

Eddie

 

[shimp]

out on a battleship/transport ship etc x navy.

time for annual/fiscal inventory...

any items OVER inventory-dump em overboard....

jeeps, helicopters,etc...not in our inventory, get rid of it

 

[dooleysm]

Do not look to the Navy as an example of fiscal responsibility within the US government.

 

[dooleysm]

But I do think that money spent on space exploration is money well spent.

 

[ToadHill]

I'd rather spend money on space than all the give away programs the government has for those too lazy to work. And I don;t disagree with the programs for those who can't fend for themselves, only those who welch off the system.

I have a disabled son who could get SSI due to his lack of vision, but he chooses to work 40 hours per week and fend for himself. I just think there are way too many people who look for the least little reason to live on the dole.

 

[rox]

As an ex NASA type I frequently get jumped on about the money "wasted by going into space". The following is the best assessment of the true value of government spending on space and other programs.

The Space Review: Is space exploration worth the cost?

You may think that the space program is a waste but please read the article to the end. You may be surprised at what you read.

Vernon

Vernon- I thought this part of the article was outrageous

The school breakfast program was successful, increasing the number of kids getting breakfast. However, when funding for this program or this type of program stops, as soon as the last of the funds goes through the pipeline, the program is over. It has no life past government funding. There was no residual benefit lasting years after the demise of the program. I was unable to find an inspirational or motivational quality for the program leading to downstream business, economics, science, or other advancement and development. One could make the case that kids who benefited from the program went on through school to accomplish great things and I don稚 doubt that. I simply could not document it in my research.
​

The author says that there is no quantifiable way to measure the susccess of the program. This program did not put money in the parents hands, it put food, actual food into childrens mouths. Apparently the author has never been hungry. My daughter taught in the worst school in America made front page of the New York Times etc., worst scool in America. Everyone gripes about 'entitlement programs (and I also most of the time) but a kid that didn't get dinner the night before and comes to school hungry did better in school after s/he got a breakfast. This is one progam I do support becasue it does not give the parents any money it simply puts food into the mouths of children and it is NOT the KIDS FAULT their parents are poor and or irresponsible. It is not the kids fault! Boy I'm wound up now. I do not beleive for a second that there are no studies on this. Don't beleive it.

And then he goes on to say this

However, as with the entitlement program above, I could not find an inspirational or motivational aspect to Hoover Dam. I致e not heard anyone say they wanted to be an engineer because of Hoover Dam. I知 sure this factor exists to one degree or another, but I could not document it either.
​

I would bet the hole against the donut as harv would say, that many many people who designed and built the hoover **** were INSPIRED to go further with their education. I was in AWE of the Hoover **** and was INSPIRED at the engineering and construction. How many other civill engineeres studied this project and went on and took that knowlege onto other projects. That civil engineering project, those engineers, clerks, and accountants took that knowlege back into the world and built other "stuff" The Hoover ****, that piece of rock we can see touch and feel iS Inspiring, and the author's attempt to cast it as uninspiring begs belief.

We spend on Public parks, and no doubt our Public parks have inspried many many people to seek our a career in ecology, the environment etc. Especially young people who spend time in our pulic parks are inspired and take a career path because of the pubic parks. This is inspiring.

So when he goes on to say that "Only NASA" Only the "Space Pprogam" inspires is a lot of hoha. This is his career, he has blinders on, he needs to get out more int he world. Yes the space progam is inspiring but a LOT of other things we spend our public tax dollars on are also inspiring. We spend our tax dollars ont he Peace corps for example, those volunteres leave after their service and pursue careers, lifelong careers becasue they were 'inspired" by their experience. And I could go on and on and on. It is NOT just the Space progam that is inspiring. The below paragraph is hogwash.

Businesses were started and are now meeting payrolls, paying taxes, and sustaining economic growth because the founder was inspired by the early days of the manned space program, often decades after the program ended! This type of inspiration and motivation seems unique to the manned space program and of late, to some of our robotic space missions.
​

I am not going to quote his whole closing comments about the rate of return, because it is so long and honestly so lopsided and biased. What about the return on the investment of our interstate highway system. When were the interstate highways bult, the 1960's? The development the interstate highways opened, savings in transportation costs etc. I'll bet it is higher than the rate of return garmered by Space exploration.

So by now you must think i am anti NASA or the Space program. Hardly, I am a big supporter. But I also see where it fits in our public life, and see that other projects/park/programs/resarch are at least equally inspiring and in some cases more inspiring. I am truly Inspired at the medical research that is currently inderway. I am inspired that we decoded DNA. Personally i would close down Nasa and spend all the money on getting us alternate energy sources, and thow off the binding chains from the big oil companies and the non democratic countries who supply the crude. Remember the first Clinton Election "It's the eceonomy stupid" Well right now in this time "It is energy stupid" We are harming our planet and are ecenomic and political security is always at risk because on our dependency of oil. Well i take back my remark about shutting down NASA, however we need to publically invest in a huge way in alternate energy and if other budgets have to be cut to get us there then Nasa is not a sacred cow. Okay off soap box.

The article really got me, it is a puff piece written by someone who is a Space pimp, he makes his living off of exciting people about space exploration, so he does not want his ox gored. The logic (not) and examples he uses are not well reasoned. No wonder he was heavily edited in the NY Times. What a drivil piece. No offence to you Vernon for posting this. Don't take this personal, I am positive there are many good articles that make a legitimate point of the iportance of NASA and space exploration. The post from Tom_H starting with... In a nuclear fusion reactor, one Helium3 atom fused with another Helium3 atom will give off great energy and virtually no radioactive waste whatsoever...was excellent, and much much better than this article. See his post is something I can get behind. There is Helium3 on the South Pole of the moon? GREAT! Llet's go there! NASA Beam me up!!!, I'll bring a shovel and a bucket.

 

[deereman64]

In todays WSJ

Biologist Craig Venter and his team have replicated a bacterium's genetic structure entirely from laboratory chemicals, moving one step closer toward creating the world's first living artificial organism.

So as a rhetorical question. If we create life here on earth does this mean we dont have to go looking for it in the rest of the universe? Or Am I sailing too close to the wind here?