The West is burning!

[RobertN]

Crew(Engine 328) from the my District, advancing on fire. They reported they have been on the fire front since they got there(Rim Fire, Yosemite/Stanislaus).

The guy on the nozzle, get's to buy serious ice cream(when you make news, news paper etc) when he gets back...

 

[farmgirl19]

I wish I could buy them all some ice cream. They do awesome work!

 

[dave1949]

I dunno, Las Vegas doesn't seem to be changing their ways very much. Lake Mead is at only 47% of capacity. Another 25 ft of water level drop and Nevada starts running into mandatory cuts. Be interesting to see if they change their ways or just change the laws

Isn't Las Vegas on a crash program to install a deeper intake pipe? I think I read they fear one of those will be out of the water not too distant from now.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

In this article, natural predators are being studied:
New control strategies for 'bipolar' bark beetles

"The pine beetles produce pheromones, chemical signals, that attract enough competitors and predators to prevent outbreaks," says Sharon Martinson, a member of the research team and first author on the new paper. "Leaving more dead trees in forests can provide habitat for competitor beetles that rarely kill tree, and for predators that eat both beetle species."

I don't know anything about southern pine forests, but in the West the problem is just too many pine trees. They compete for moisture, which leaves them without adequate sap to "pitch out" the bark beetles. If they encapsulate the larvae in pitch before they have a chance to pupate, they both stop the bark damage and prevent the next generation. You can control bark beetle outbreaks just by thinning the stand to minimize competition between trees. This also minimizes the risk of catastrophic fires by reducing fuel loads. Of course, the bozos in Washington DC won't allow local foresters to manage the forests, setting up rules that are immensely destructive to the forests.

 

[cqaigy2]

I wish I could buy them all some ice cream. They do awesome work!

Yep, that's hella hard work!

 

[dave1949]

Thanks guys, for explaining "fire climax" ecology. That makes more sense to me now that I have read about it.

This provides some insight to fire policies in Idaho over a long time period. (not picking on Idaho, they seem to have a lot of material on-line) It's basically a recap of the "Man meets nature" saga that is so common in our history.
http://www.idl.idaho.gov/bureau/FireMgt/managing_fire_handbook_dec08/Idaho_Fire_Handbook_v10-7.pdf

The 1905 "Big Blow" fire resulted in the state of Idaho adopting fire suppression methods and rules. You could be jailed for not fighting a fire on your land, interesting history. The "Sundance" fire in 1967 also precipitated a turning point in tactics and resources.

I can see the conflict between Federal land and private/state land fire management. As an Easterner, I don't totally grasp the assumption that federal lands lying within a state should be assumed to be the resources of that state. I don't know the history or laws surrounding that issue. It does seem to be at the root of things however.

I get that the federal lands are intended to be a reservoir of natural resources, but to assume that means timber production may be an over-reach? You all can tell me how wrong I am. :laughing:

We do import wood products but Maine (with hardly any federal lands), and Idaho both have an increasing standing inventory. More grows each year than is harvested or lost to natural causes. I think there is more to it than an inability to access the timber, but I'm sure that plays a role in comparative costs. The paper mills here live precariously. Verso Paper, their Androscoggin Mill is near here in Jay, Maine, just got delisted from the NYSE. Their shares are trading at $0.80.

 

[charlz]

I can see the conflict between Federal land and private/state land fire management. As an Easterner, I don't totally grasp the assumption that federal lands lying within a state should be assumed to be the resources of that state. I don't know the history or laws surrounding that issue. It does seem to be at the root of things however.

I get that the federal lands are intended to be a reservoir of natural resources, but to assume that means timber production may be an over-reach? You all can tell me how wrong I am.

Until 1980 or so the Federal government was on-board with timber production etc. because it brought in a lot of revenue for the government. Timber production on Federal land was 'good for everyone'.

Something like 97% of Nevada is Federal land. 63% of Idaho is Federal land. The Federal lands encompass a large portion of the 'natural wealth' (timber, minerals, gas, oil etc) of the State. Naturally the States want to benefit from and have some say in the use of those resources that are within their borders. Hard to explain I guess.

 

[bcp]

And the counties can't tax federal land. So there was:

Payments in Lieu of Taxes
"Payments in Lieu of Taxes" (or PILT) are Federal payments to local governments that help offset losses in property taxes due to non-taxable Federal lands within their boundaries. The key law is Public Law 94-565, dated October 20, 1976. This law was rewritten and amended by Public Law 97-258 on September 13, 1982 and codified at Chapter 69, Title 31 of the United States Code. The Law recognizes that the inability of local governments to collect property taxes on Federally-owned land can create a financial impact.



But this has been cut back so much that some counties are contemplating bankruptcy.

 

[Larro Darro]

The Apalachicola National Forest is just across the Apalachicola River from me. It takes up large parts of Liberty and Wakulla counties, and lesser amounts of Leon, and Franklin counties. All the people in the first two counties mentioned are crowded in the little bit of land not owned the Fed's. There isn't much room for growth, as most all the private land is already being used. They do get some help from the Fed's, but I didn't know it had been cut.